Hi Hiren,
When i looked at the topic, thought it's interesting when i looked at the artical i thought it's too long but belive me as i started reding it , i can definatly tell you that u did a great job. keep it up.
Regards,
Payal Gade
From India, Pune
11When i looked at the topic, thought it's interesting when i looked at the artical i thought it's too long but belive me as i started reding it , i can definatly tell you that u did a great job. keep it up.
Regards,
Payal Gade
From India, Pune
:) Do watch the movie "NAYA DAUR" casting Dilip Kumar for more HR perspectives specifically team work and leadership :)
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
Hi Hiren!
Good observation. Almost all of us watch movies but many times we don't keep an an eye on such issues. In a recent traning session an excerpt of Munna Bhai MBBS was shown as a motivating factor. Personally I saw the movie more than twice or thrice but had never senn it beyond a comedy movie.
Keep all of us who would be interested updated.
Regards,
Swati.
Good observation. Almost all of us watch movies but many times we don't keep an an eye on such issues. In a recent traning session an excerpt of Munna Bhai MBBS was shown as a motivating factor. Personally I saw the movie more than twice or thrice but had never senn it beyond a comedy movie.
Keep all of us who would be interested updated.
Regards,
Swati.
:) Do watch "NAYA DAUR" featuring Dilip Kumar for HR Perspectives specifically Teamwork and Leadership. :)
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
Ryan
About “How to remain idle”- that is called incubating the subconscious with the relevant knowledge and then let nature do the rest in idle or free times. Einstein got the best ideas while walking. What is relevant to our context is that first you have to be sure what exactly you want to do or what is your unique strength and then do something like that. Then, the chances of success are much better in my view.
There is a wonderful book I have been reading called “The greatest secret of success” by Mr Virender Kapoor who is on the HR committee of CII. It is a unique book by an Indian author to the best of my knowledge. The main theme of the book is passion quotient(PQ) and how square pegs in round holes can be avoided by determining Passion. It has very interesting examples and quotes both by Indian and foreign authors. The best I liked was maverick entrepreneur Richard Branson who is asked whether he let his heart overrule is head. He replied “All the time” which at least in his case is the secret of his success. Heart being more important than the head was also mentioned by the famous psychologist Segmund Freud(for major decisions) and is also mentioned in the Rig veda but that(to my mind) is in a particular context. In the ultimate analysis, most things are situational and it is better if the heart is balanced by the head which is grounded optimism
It is good that somebody from HR in India has written a book like this because mort career consultants I have interacted with on this issue behave as if I am “Alice in Wonderland”(or living in a fool's paradise) and that too on the most fundamental issue of right person for the right occupation.
Ryan- About the meat of piece falling in the fire- that is serendipity and there is a lateral thinking book by Paul Slaone which has a chapter devoted to that. Peter Drucker's "Innovation and Entreupreurship" is also good.
Ryan It is good that you mentioned writing. What you said is true to an extent when we look at Arundhati Roy who has not achieved anything after that book for which she won the booker prize. Opposite to that is the r example of Machiavelli who wrote “Don Quixote” after a lifetime of suffering. It depends on the profile of the writer. Being a writer myself, I had bumped into a young writer at one of my wife’s cousin brother’s office. That guy is into making TV serials. She gave an interesting insight” You are so lucky that you have reached middle age. You must have lots of experiences to write about”. Even a majority of characters of Hindi Cinema’s best film(best filmfare award for 50 years-1954-1994)) “Sholay” came from “ real life according to the book “The making of Sholay” .
In my last post, I went a little overboard on the love for work. As I said earlier, one has to keep the market profile in mind and since you mentioned writers, I must add this.. Mr Kapoor deserves handsome compliments because in several parts of the books he has given emphasis on marketable services instead of some “gurus” who over talk and only talk about dreaming and dreaming big. For instance Shashi Tharoor, India’s representative at the United Nations said “A full time writer is a rare breed anywhere in the world”.My mother-in-law told me about some Jain Bhajan singer who lived in penury throughout lifetime but his books began selling like hotcakes after his death. Reminds you of Shakespeare, Painter Vincent Van goh and Munshi Premchand who had the same experience.
Fortunately, we have better transparency now with the internet and I know someone in Delhi who calls himself “Working poet” (earning money out of poetry) who is trying to popularize poetry to enable poets to make a living out of that. If you google for “working poet”, you will find many who have written poems about their misery in the wrong occupation.
So success and satisfaction depend on what your dream is- one cannot have over rosy sweeping generalizations which some people who conduct workshops make without bothering about the specific personal or professional profile of people:-
Galat kaam se bada koi nahi hai gum
Sahi kaam ki khushi nahi hai kum
Khushi ke saath safalta chaahte hai hum
Par kuch logo ke bhaagya main hoti hai cheeni kum
From India, New Delhi
About “How to remain idle”- that is called incubating the subconscious with the relevant knowledge and then let nature do the rest in idle or free times. Einstein got the best ideas while walking. What is relevant to our context is that first you have to be sure what exactly you want to do or what is your unique strength and then do something like that. Then, the chances of success are much better in my view.
There is a wonderful book I have been reading called “The greatest secret of success” by Mr Virender Kapoor who is on the HR committee of CII. It is a unique book by an Indian author to the best of my knowledge. The main theme of the book is passion quotient(PQ) and how square pegs in round holes can be avoided by determining Passion. It has very interesting examples and quotes both by Indian and foreign authors. The best I liked was maverick entrepreneur Richard Branson who is asked whether he let his heart overrule is head. He replied “All the time” which at least in his case is the secret of his success. Heart being more important than the head was also mentioned by the famous psychologist Segmund Freud(for major decisions) and is also mentioned in the Rig veda but that(to my mind) is in a particular context. In the ultimate analysis, most things are situational and it is better if the heart is balanced by the head which is grounded optimism
It is good that somebody from HR in India has written a book like this because mort career consultants I have interacted with on this issue behave as if I am “Alice in Wonderland”(or living in a fool's paradise) and that too on the most fundamental issue of right person for the right occupation.
Ryan- About the meat of piece falling in the fire- that is serendipity and there is a lateral thinking book by Paul Slaone which has a chapter devoted to that. Peter Drucker's "Innovation and Entreupreurship" is also good.
Ryan It is good that you mentioned writing. What you said is true to an extent when we look at Arundhati Roy who has not achieved anything after that book for which she won the booker prize. Opposite to that is the r example of Machiavelli who wrote “Don Quixote” after a lifetime of suffering. It depends on the profile of the writer. Being a writer myself, I had bumped into a young writer at one of my wife’s cousin brother’s office. That guy is into making TV serials. She gave an interesting insight” You are so lucky that you have reached middle age. You must have lots of experiences to write about”. Even a majority of characters of Hindi Cinema’s best film(best filmfare award for 50 years-1954-1994)) “Sholay” came from “ real life according to the book “The making of Sholay” .
In my last post, I went a little overboard on the love for work. As I said earlier, one has to keep the market profile in mind and since you mentioned writers, I must add this.. Mr Kapoor deserves handsome compliments because in several parts of the books he has given emphasis on marketable services instead of some “gurus” who over talk and only talk about dreaming and dreaming big. For instance Shashi Tharoor, India’s representative at the United Nations said “A full time writer is a rare breed anywhere in the world”.My mother-in-law told me about some Jain Bhajan singer who lived in penury throughout lifetime but his books began selling like hotcakes after his death. Reminds you of Shakespeare, Painter Vincent Van goh and Munshi Premchand who had the same experience.
Fortunately, we have better transparency now with the internet and I know someone in Delhi who calls himself “Working poet” (earning money out of poetry) who is trying to popularize poetry to enable poets to make a living out of that. If you google for “working poet”, you will find many who have written poems about their misery in the wrong occupation.
So success and satisfaction depend on what your dream is- one cannot have over rosy sweeping generalizations which some people who conduct workshops make without bothering about the specific personal or professional profile of people:-
Galat kaam se bada koi nahi hai gum
Sahi kaam ki khushi nahi hai kum
Khushi ke saath safalta chaahte hai hum
Par kuch logo ke bhaagya main hoti hai cheeni kum
From India, New Delhi
The other post became too long because of Mr Kapoor's books. This also deserves a mention:-
Janice and Ryan- About perfection, I much mention Osho “ The person who wants to be a perfectionist is a neurotic”. It takes some years of management experience to realize this in letter and spirit Einstein said at the end of his life, “I was only collecting pebbles on the sea shore”. Science is objective and HR is subjective and in subjective matters, perfection is much more difficult to achieve. From a practical perspective- forget about perfection, .if I put Morgan and Banks as the benchmark, has any Indian HRD person achieved what they have achieved by putting the right people in the right jobs? I would even call them happiness managers.
Kannik Khanna has mentioned a very good movie-Naya Daur". Leadership and Teamwork apart, it is a negative example of what short sighted industrialization can do. If you look at the big picture, it is the opposite of the “Capitalist mind with a socialist heart” philosophy which both the Infosys chairman Mr Narayanmurthy and Dhirubhai Ambani followed. Even our honorable Prime minister, Mr Manmohan Singh advised just two days back advised to check conspicuous consumption. There are so many books like “The world is Flat” which warn of dire consequences because of extreme disparity of income. So the "Naya Daur" that we are experiencing in terms of economic boom these days could turn out to be counterproductive- Naye Daur pe karo Gaur.
Swatiss has also mentioned a very good movie-Munnabhai MBBS. Even the British medical council liked that movie and it was extremely popular in Pakistan. In that context, the movie was an outstanding HR exercise in both real and reel life. It also shows that while one can talk about HR concepts, it was Munnabhai who had the functional talent. of bonding with people. The great intellectual J.krishnamurthy said that thought has limitation but love has no limitation.
I read somewhere that even Lage Raho Munnabhai endeared Gandhiji to more young people than any academician has been able to achieve. HR is also about connecting with people and from that perspective, nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma(In politics).
From India, New Delhi
Janice and Ryan- About perfection, I much mention Osho “ The person who wants to be a perfectionist is a neurotic”. It takes some years of management experience to realize this in letter and spirit Einstein said at the end of his life, “I was only collecting pebbles on the sea shore”. Science is objective and HR is subjective and in subjective matters, perfection is much more difficult to achieve. From a practical perspective- forget about perfection, .if I put Morgan and Banks as the benchmark, has any Indian HRD person achieved what they have achieved by putting the right people in the right jobs? I would even call them happiness managers.
Kannik Khanna has mentioned a very good movie-Naya Daur". Leadership and Teamwork apart, it is a negative example of what short sighted industrialization can do. If you look at the big picture, it is the opposite of the “Capitalist mind with a socialist heart” philosophy which both the Infosys chairman Mr Narayanmurthy and Dhirubhai Ambani followed. Even our honorable Prime minister, Mr Manmohan Singh advised just two days back advised to check conspicuous consumption. There are so many books like “The world is Flat” which warn of dire consequences because of extreme disparity of income. So the "Naya Daur" that we are experiencing in terms of economic boom these days could turn out to be counterproductive- Naye Daur pe karo Gaur.
Swatiss has also mentioned a very good movie-Munnabhai MBBS. Even the British medical council liked that movie and it was extremely popular in Pakistan. In that context, the movie was an outstanding HR exercise in both real and reel life. It also shows that while one can talk about HR concepts, it was Munnabhai who had the functional talent. of bonding with people. The great intellectual J.krishnamurthy said that thought has limitation but love has no limitation.
I read somewhere that even Lage Raho Munnabhai endeared Gandhiji to more young people than any academician has been able to achieve. HR is also about connecting with people and from that perspective, nobody in Independent India has been able to beat the Mahatma(In politics).
From India, New Delhi
Thanks Hiren,
I will definitely pick up Mr. Kapoor's book. It sounds very interesting from your description.
You mentioned Thats true - because he was never in politics per se. His passion was in improving the lot of our nation and its people. He wasn't really concerned with politics, but was drawn into it by politicians. He and Mother Theresa and others like them had the willingness to help others at whatever cost, in the best way they could do. Their philosophy was "I want to help, so either join me in helping others or get out of my way so that I can help others." A true hallmark of service orientation!
There was also a response from the public to the Prime Minister's message for CEOs to reduce their packages. They have asked the PM to get the ministers to reduce their gains which is running into undisclosed crores before asking CEOs to do so. Cases in point being the property owned by them (politicians) through not so "above board" means.
For me - the best writer on innovation is Edward de Bono. His ideas are a feast for the mind!
A person with willing to share new ideas or willing to look for new alternatives is worth more to me than all the academics in the world.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
I will definitely pick up Mr. Kapoor's book. It sounds very interesting from your description.
You mentioned Thats true - because he was never in politics per se. His passion was in improving the lot of our nation and its people. He wasn't really concerned with politics, but was drawn into it by politicians. He and Mother Theresa and others like them had the willingness to help others at whatever cost, in the best way they could do. Their philosophy was "I want to help, so either join me in helping others or get out of my way so that I can help others." A true hallmark of service orientation!
There was also a response from the public to the Prime Minister's message for CEOs to reduce their packages. They have asked the PM to get the ministers to reduce their gains which is running into undisclosed crores before asking CEOs to do so. Cases in point being the property owned by them (politicians) through not so "above board" means.
For me - the best writer on innovation is Edward de Bono. His ideas are a feast for the mind!
A person with willing to share new ideas or willing to look for new alternatives is worth more to me than all the academics in the world.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
Mother Teresa’s example is there in Mr Kapoor’s book
As for Gandhji, since you have specifically mentioned him, these are his views on the subject :- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/02/06/hello-world/
Yesterday, I received a reply from Edward de Bono’s office that a book called Re think has examples but is published by an Australian firm. Are you aware of any such book in India?
Before we wind up this discussion, a few more film industry examples. Nagesh kuknoor, the director of films like Hyderabad Blues, Iqbaal and Dor is a chemical engineer but shifted to films to follow his heart. In that wonderful movie Iqbal there is a dialogue by Naseerudin Shah pleading Iqbal’s father to let him play cricket. Translated, it goes something like this “ You should thank god that your son knows that he wants to play cricket. There are so many people in this world who do not know what their purpose in life is”. Both Amitabh Bachchan and Dale Carnegie said the same thing in real life.
Apart from Amitabh Bachchan who made the switch to corporate world, Chartered accountants Shekhar Kapur and Abhijeet became director and singer, respectively. Music composers A R Rehman and Shanker shifted from civil and software engineering, respectively. There maybe other examples but in my view, the restless urge in artists is more.
Earlier in some posts. some people have said that I had drawn a good comparison to what Tabu said in the film. Actually, what Karan Johar, Shahrukh Khan and Sanjay leela Bhansali said in the subject in real life is far more interesting. That apart, this post also has views of several American consultants. They are there in the post Movie “Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna and HR Management” under Articles by Forum Member
From India, New Delhi
As for Gandhji, since you have specifically mentioned him, these are his views on the subject :- http://mypyp.wordpress.com/2006/02/06/hello-world/
Yesterday, I received a reply from Edward de Bono’s office that a book called Re think has examples but is published by an Australian firm. Are you aware of any such book in India?
Before we wind up this discussion, a few more film industry examples. Nagesh kuknoor, the director of films like Hyderabad Blues, Iqbaal and Dor is a chemical engineer but shifted to films to follow his heart. In that wonderful movie Iqbal there is a dialogue by Naseerudin Shah pleading Iqbal’s father to let him play cricket. Translated, it goes something like this “ You should thank god that your son knows that he wants to play cricket. There are so many people in this world who do not know what their purpose in life is”. Both Amitabh Bachchan and Dale Carnegie said the same thing in real life.
Apart from Amitabh Bachchan who made the switch to corporate world, Chartered accountants Shekhar Kapur and Abhijeet became director and singer, respectively. Music composers A R Rehman and Shanker shifted from civil and software engineering, respectively. There maybe other examples but in my view, the restless urge in artists is more.
Earlier in some posts. some people have said that I had drawn a good comparison to what Tabu said in the film. Actually, what Karan Johar, Shahrukh Khan and Sanjay leela Bhansali said in the subject in real life is far more interesting. That apart, this post also has views of several American consultants. They are there in the post Movie “Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna and HR Management” under Articles by Forum Member
From India, New Delhi
Hi Hiren,
I finally saw this movie.
I agree with you on your statement that one who loves and is passionate about their job can speak like this.
From an HR front, I find the character of Mr. Bachan's to be close to the "Boss from Hell" type. At certain times, I felt that the sarcasm was overdone to the point of being sarcastic just for the sake of being sarcastic. I can speak on this, because I am known to have a very sarcastic vocabulary, and I enjoy sarcasm & vitriol a lot, but you can't have every sentence being a sarcastic retort, no matter how funny it is. It irritates and aggravates all those around. In the case of the movie, Tabu's character was able to cut him down using truth, and his own self-respect.
Sarcasm generally cuts down the other person. From a boss-subordinate viewpoint, very few subordinates would be able to retort to a sarcastic manager, not because they can't, but because they are afraid for their jobs - and thereby their livelihood. I don't think too many people would be comfortable working under a person like this. People leave bosses like these (as we discussed earlier).
From an HR perspective - I personally, would never give an over-sarcastic manager more than a good rating on his appraisal, even if he achieved all his targets. He would be a nightmare to recruit for, since his team would possibly have the highest attrition. Given how extra sensitive people are today, his team would be extremely dissatisfied with him.
For eg. Some years ago, I cleared an interview and I was offered no change in designation, role, and 2% increase in salary. The travel distance was also going to be the same. AND I was expected to join this organization double quick. When I happened to check around, I was told that "that manager is an idiot and rude to folks... nobody likes him here, best you don't join since you will report directly to him". You can guess that I didn't join there.
The movie was overall nice, and dealt with some interesting and controversial (in Indian scenario) topics. Its definitely worth a look.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
I finally saw this movie.
I agree with you on your statement that one who loves and is passionate about their job can speak like this.
From an HR front, I find the character of Mr. Bachan's to be close to the "Boss from Hell" type. At certain times, I felt that the sarcasm was overdone to the point of being sarcastic just for the sake of being sarcastic. I can speak on this, because I am known to have a very sarcastic vocabulary, and I enjoy sarcasm & vitriol a lot, but you can't have every sentence being a sarcastic retort, no matter how funny it is. It irritates and aggravates all those around. In the case of the movie, Tabu's character was able to cut him down using truth, and his own self-respect.
Sarcasm generally cuts down the other person. From a boss-subordinate viewpoint, very few subordinates would be able to retort to a sarcastic manager, not because they can't, but because they are afraid for their jobs - and thereby their livelihood. I don't think too many people would be comfortable working under a person like this. People leave bosses like these (as we discussed earlier).
From an HR perspective - I personally, would never give an over-sarcastic manager more than a good rating on his appraisal, even if he achieved all his targets. He would be a nightmare to recruit for, since his team would possibly have the highest attrition. Given how extra sensitive people are today, his team would be extremely dissatisfied with him.
For eg. Some years ago, I cleared an interview and I was offered no change in designation, role, and 2% increase in salary. The travel distance was also going to be the same. AND I was expected to join this organization double quick. When I happened to check around, I was told that "that manager is an idiot and rude to folks... nobody likes him here, best you don't join since you will report directly to him". You can guess that I didn't join there.
The movie was overall nice, and dealt with some interesting and controversial (in Indian scenario) topics. Its definitely worth a look.
Ryan
From India, Mumbai
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