Dear Gunjan
Thanks for your post.
Your views are extremely balanced & objective. Kudos to your mature thinking, empathy & understanding all points of views.
All I can say here is we need more people like you in the corporate HR.
Please do keep infecting others with your attitude & thoughts!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
4Thanks for your post.
Your views are extremely balanced & objective. Kudos to your mature thinking, empathy & understanding all points of views.
All I can say here is we need more people like you in the corporate HR.
Please do keep infecting others with your attitude & thoughts!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Amish
Thanks for your post and views.
Again I would like to reiterate that the corporate HR needs to select its vendors with care.
May I tell you that I have seen the the corporate HR's have not been able to find candidates using Naukri. We have many times closed positions finding candidates from naukri / Monster which the client had already searched.
Expectations: Many times corporate HR do not know / are NOT clear them selves about position / JD / Candidate profile etc. They keep changing the JD.
Perhaps you may have not come across a consultant who will out do you in all departments of recruiting.
The requirement is that of mutual respect , learning from each other, courtsey and bit of tolerance of human errors & shortcomings.
Good HR Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
Thanks for your post and views.
Again I would like to reiterate that the corporate HR needs to select its vendors with care.
May I tell you that I have seen the the corporate HR's have not been able to find candidates using Naukri. We have many times closed positions finding candidates from naukri / Monster which the client had already searched.
Expectations: Many times corporate HR do not know / are NOT clear them selves about position / JD / Candidate profile etc. They keep changing the JD.
Perhaps you may have not come across a consultant who will out do you in all departments of recruiting.
The requirement is that of mutual respect , learning from each other, courtsey and bit of tolerance of human errors & shortcomings.
Good HR Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Friend
It was refreshing to see you comparing the whole thing with formats of cricket!
The question here is not about who works harder or more, but of respect for each others efforts, professional competence, ethical behaviour and working as a team, learning & growing together as professionals in the business of HR.
Discourtsey to consutants is pain point for them. Please show Human courtsey atleast if you can't show professional courtsey due to a perceived incompetence on part of the consultant.
Keep in mind the "Human" in HR!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
It was refreshing to see you comparing the whole thing with formats of cricket!
The question here is not about who works harder or more, but of respect for each others efforts, professional competence, ethical behaviour and working as a team, learning & growing together as professionals in the business of HR.
Discourtsey to consutants is pain point for them. Please show Human courtsey atleast if you can't show professional courtsey due to a perceived incompetence on part of the consultant.
Keep in mind the "Human" in HR!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Vinod
Is there anything unethical about trying a business? Are they stealing from anyone? Are they cheating?
Everyone has a right and freedom to choose a business, profession & vocation. If they are not competent, they will have to clsoe down sooner than later.
Your job is only to spot such consultants and avoid them. Select the good ones to work for you ( if you are good at vendoer selection that is..) But you can't ridicule anyone's efforts and enterprise.
Long time back one such "yera gaira" used to sell cut piece on his bicycle carier and tried to start a textile business.
This "yera gaira" was Shri Dhirubhai Ambani.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Is there anything unethical about trying a business? Are they stealing from anyone? Are they cheating?
Everyone has a right and freedom to choose a business, profession & vocation. If they are not competent, they will have to clsoe down sooner than later.
Your job is only to spot such consultants and avoid them. Select the good ones to work for you ( if you are good at vendoer selection that is..) But you can't ridicule anyone's efforts and enterprise.
Long time back one such "yera gaira" used to sell cut piece on his bicycle carier and tried to start a textile business.
This "yera gaira" was Shri Dhirubhai Ambani.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Creation
Thanks for your post.
Till such time the Corporate HR starts treating the consultants with respect this debate will continue. The advise to Corporate HR is please ROOT OUT incompetent consultants.
Give level playing field to Good / Professional consultants, be ethical ( don't cheat them / take advantage of their services) and you will see this debate dying out for ever.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Thanks for your post.
Till such time the Corporate HR starts treating the consultants with respect this debate will continue. The advise to Corporate HR is please ROOT OUT incompetent consultants.
Give level playing field to Good / Professional consultants, be ethical ( don't cheat them / take advantage of their services) and you will see this debate dying out for ever.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Hello
I am just addressing to the one I have highlighted in red.
We hire consultantss to do the task that we are NOT able to do. Not to do what we are DOING.
So - your point is a lame excuse.
And BTW - had the corporate HR known to describe the KRAs and neatly get the specifics done - mind you, they will not turn to consultants.
Know the industry, know the profile - core reqmnt, and you need to design a set of KRAs and create a niche for urself saying "Hey look, this is our way of screening and we reduce the time you sepnd on recruiting...so HIRE us for more assignments"
Thats the message you need to send.
Pls dont think that a consultants job is to just get the JD, KRAs and then go and hunt for profiles. If it were such, I could always hire freelancers and get this done!
Think on what you can do - not what others can do to make you perform.
From India, Madras
I am just addressing to the one I have highlighted in red.
We hire consultantss to do the task that we are NOT able to do. Not to do what we are DOING.
So - your point is a lame excuse.
And BTW - had the corporate HR known to describe the KRAs and neatly get the specifics done - mind you, they will not turn to consultants.
Know the industry, know the profile - core reqmnt, and you need to design a set of KRAs and create a niche for urself saying "Hey look, this is our way of screening and we reduce the time you sepnd on recruiting...so HIRE us for more assignments"
Thats the message you need to send.
Pls dont think that a consultants job is to just get the JD, KRAs and then go and hunt for profiles. If it were such, I could always hire freelancers and get this done!
Think on what you can do - not what others can do to make you perform.
From India, Madras
And this Dhirubhai Ambani did not complain that others were not treating him the way he wanted to be treated. He did his part - and the world watched him!
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Dear Consultant,
I am sorry that it is going to be little straight but somehow i dont have the same opinon, i dont want to be biased at all in my judgement as i myself has worked as a consultant & currently working as corporate HR.
I do agree that the HR are sometime rude but let all of us accept that there are N number of consultants who hire inefficient staff & they even without understanding job profile call any candidate & send them for interview which finally is a point for irritation & waste of time for the HR & candidate both. Above that whenever HR share any opening with them they keep calling them for one reason or the other, they dont think that HR has lots of other works to do also not only recruitment which may be more important & urgent in nature.....
I personally is experiencing such situation that one of my consultant has at least 8 staff in their office & they share all the opening with all the staff. Therefore HR has to reply all of them seperately in case of any query they dont have any single contact person, even if yout tell one person to communicate the same to rest of their team still each of them call up & ask personally & take confirmation......
Other than above i can tell alot other reason which makes HR to think so....
Correct me if you guys think otherwise....
Regards
Shikha jain
From India, Bangalore
I am sorry that it is going to be little straight but somehow i dont have the same opinon, i dont want to be biased at all in my judgement as i myself has worked as a consultant & currently working as corporate HR.
I do agree that the HR are sometime rude but let all of us accept that there are N number of consultants who hire inefficient staff & they even without understanding job profile call any candidate & send them for interview which finally is a point for irritation & waste of time for the HR & candidate both. Above that whenever HR share any opening with them they keep calling them for one reason or the other, they dont think that HR has lots of other works to do also not only recruitment which may be more important & urgent in nature.....
I personally is experiencing such situation that one of my consultant has at least 8 staff in their office & they share all the opening with all the staff. Therefore HR has to reply all of them seperately in case of any query they dont have any single contact person, even if yout tell one person to communicate the same to rest of their team still each of them call up & ask personally & take confirmation......
Other than above i can tell alot other reason which makes HR to think so....
Correct me if you guys think otherwise....
Regards
Shikha jain
From India, Bangalore
Hi Asha
Thanks for you points. I agree with some of them.
What you said - That may be true in some cases, but a lot of time I have seen clients draw a blank when we enquire about the image they have planned to project amongst prospective applicants. Their USP to attract the top talent etc etc.(and we are talking about senior Management here and not Front line Sales people) When they draw a NIL on this, we create a plan for their campaign and send it to them. Needless to say they are overjoyed with our research and home work, but soon they fall back to their old ways and old games. Many times I have seen the HR managers take the credit for the employer branding which we wrote & planned for them. What do you say to that?
Again I would ref to your point marked in Red. It is the company which sets the KRA's & the JD of the position. The client is running the company & the operations, they know & should know what exactly they need. They know theri future plans, re structuring taking place, new markets and unique skill sets they need to execute the tasks.
What you are saying is like telling a shopkeeper when you visit a shop "Please decide what I need"!! You are the shopkeeper you should know what I need in my house!!
We have many times offered to visit and meet the Technical / Line / Functional managers to get a clear picture of the Job and create the Candidate profile. But the HR managers have always discouraged us..I wonder why?
We have many times taught the corporate difference between various technologies and what exactly they need. They verified from the Technical people and we were proved right. Then what role is the corporate HR playing if they don't know what their own organisation needs, leave alone the industry! What are they....glorified post boxes?
I know some Good HR people who really know theri job and we have immense respect for them. But we can't respect you JUST because you are a client / HR Manager if you don't know your job.
Whoile lot of Management jargon will not serve the purpose.
I have already mentioned that please root out incompetent consultants. In the same way good corporate HR must condemn Bad corporate HR. Simple!
Again I have a feeling that you have already decided that we don't know much about the companies we work for and the industries.
Let me tell you you'll be surprised how much I would be able tell you about your own company and its future plans, if we take you up as a client! But then you'll tell me "Oh but you are supposed to know all that"..but the HR Manager / Executives have the privielege of being ignorant about their own job!!??
I guess with 18 Years of experience in the corporate world with premier companies at senior positions in HR & Admin roles I still need help from HR Executives to perform.
Asha, I'll think about it !!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Thanks for you points. I agree with some of them.
What you said - That may be true in some cases, but a lot of time I have seen clients draw a blank when we enquire about the image they have planned to project amongst prospective applicants. Their USP to attract the top talent etc etc.(and we are talking about senior Management here and not Front line Sales people) When they draw a NIL on this, we create a plan for their campaign and send it to them. Needless to say they are overjoyed with our research and home work, but soon they fall back to their old ways and old games. Many times I have seen the HR managers take the credit for the employer branding which we wrote & planned for them. What do you say to that?
Again I would ref to your point marked in Red. It is the company which sets the KRA's & the JD of the position. The client is running the company & the operations, they know & should know what exactly they need. They know theri future plans, re structuring taking place, new markets and unique skill sets they need to execute the tasks.
What you are saying is like telling a shopkeeper when you visit a shop "Please decide what I need"!! You are the shopkeeper you should know what I need in my house!!
We have many times offered to visit and meet the Technical / Line / Functional managers to get a clear picture of the Job and create the Candidate profile. But the HR managers have always discouraged us..I wonder why?
We have many times taught the corporate difference between various technologies and what exactly they need. They verified from the Technical people and we were proved right. Then what role is the corporate HR playing if they don't know what their own organisation needs, leave alone the industry! What are they....glorified post boxes?
I know some Good HR people who really know theri job and we have immense respect for them. But we can't respect you JUST because you are a client / HR Manager if you don't know your job.
Whoile lot of Management jargon will not serve the purpose.
I have already mentioned that please root out incompetent consultants. In the same way good corporate HR must condemn Bad corporate HR. Simple!
Again I have a feeling that you have already decided that we don't know much about the companies we work for and the industries.
Let me tell you you'll be surprised how much I would be able tell you about your own company and its future plans, if we take you up as a client! But then you'll tell me "Oh but you are supposed to know all that"..but the HR Manager / Executives have the privielege of being ignorant about their own job!!??
I guess with 18 Years of experience in the corporate world with premier companies at senior positions in HR & Admin roles I still need help from HR Executives to perform.
Asha, I'll think about it !!
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I understand that the "complaints" prick your conscious. They make you uncomfortable and hot under your collar. You become red faced facing the truth and some how you want everyone to just please shut up and let things carry on as they are happening.
...And the HR advocates about L&D, continual improvement & teach ethics in their organizations...strange!!
Yes, He never complained, but he did stuff their pockets with money to shut them up. Then..No body complained!!
We can do that too and everyone will be happy. Specially the corporate HR. Now please don't say in this forum that HR Mangers don't take commission to close positions, people will laugh :icon6:
Good Corporate HR
From India, Chandigarh
...And the HR advocates about L&D, continual improvement & teach ethics in their organizations...strange!!
Yes, He never complained, but he did stuff their pockets with money to shut them up. Then..No body complained!!
We can do that too and everyone will be happy. Specially the corporate HR. Now please don't say in this forum that HR Mangers don't take commission to close positions, people will laugh :icon6:
Good Corporate HR
From India, Chandigarh
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