I welcome the bold approach of Mr.Siva. This may stand good for a person who had put in 30 years of experience. Whereas Srinaren and I may not have that patience to try to change things and teach lesson to the employer.
At the threshold of taking the HR assignment from them, all we could do is to prepare action list and then list out the gross deviations and violations.
A suggestion may be placed from our side for them to check the wrong procedure but it depends on the managment to implement or listen to you. We need not showcase our courage in trying to change them.
Instead they may have to forcibly remove us due to disatisfaction. Which management allows you to raise arms against it, follow anti-employer rules, trigger problems among the employees? Initially our blood boils, our mails emit steam owing to emotional turmoil that employer practices are not good. If we are summoned for the same reason, how many of us know under what cirucmstances such bad practices were advised for the management? Much of damage would have been done when we take up the position there and our role would become redundant to offer explanation to labour authorities if summoned.
Working as staff or consultant has to be our livelihood and not enter into tug of war wherever we go. Reality is always bitter and one has to be wise enough to sail across.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
39At the threshold of taking the HR assignment from them, all we could do is to prepare action list and then list out the gross deviations and violations.
A suggestion may be placed from our side for them to check the wrong procedure but it depends on the managment to implement or listen to you. We need not showcase our courage in trying to change them.
Instead they may have to forcibly remove us due to disatisfaction. Which management allows you to raise arms against it, follow anti-employer rules, trigger problems among the employees? Initially our blood boils, our mails emit steam owing to emotional turmoil that employer practices are not good. If we are summoned for the same reason, how many of us know under what cirucmstances such bad practices were advised for the management? Much of damage would have been done when we take up the position there and our role would become redundant to offer explanation to labour authorities if summoned.
Working as staff or consultant has to be our livelihood and not enter into tug of war wherever we go. Reality is always bitter and one has to be wise enough to sail across.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
Dear Chandru & Siva,
I feel Chandru has become more emotional and trying the impress on the status that Management is overruling the HR community. It may be true in some cases wherein the Management least bothers about the ethics of business, does not care for the people who makes them (the Management) earn money for their investment and believe that without them the Management can not survive! Most of these type of industries/Organisations are small in nature and only intention is to make/earn returns for their investment.
Probably, some medium scaled companies also have this problem. This may be because of the wrong introduction of policies and procedures by our own HR community people! Not only this, because of the immaturity or lack of knowledge of laws, they formulate something which is lacking in all aspects and over a period that becomes a management policy. This will continue till a professional who is equipped with experience, sound knowledge and conviction tells the Management that what is being followed requires to be changed.
I completely agree with Siva, that one should have the courage and conviction to tell the Management that we need to honour the Law of the Land. Now, many of the Buyers from abroad have brought in Social Compliance for the Exporters to be followed which is based on the Law of the Land and International Labour Organisation laws. If the Management does not follow the rules, they will be disqualified to do the business with them. But, many rules have lot of flaws because these are the laws formulated in 1947 and are outdated. The Government of India has to take the review of all these out dated laws in consultation with the Captains of the Industry.
I am also having 30 years of industrial experience where in all these years I have fought with many Managements and made them realise their wrong policies. While doing so, I never bothered about my job. I feel an HR person or for that matter a Manager should be PEOPLE CENTRIC WITH THE MANAGEMENT AND MANAGEMENT CENTRIC WITH THE WORKERS. In my experience workers will definitely are matured enough that what you are doing is good for them or not when you impartially weigh the situations and take the decisions.
My intention of posting this subject was to make our brothers and sisters of the HR Community to understand what is law, what is to be followed with the inputs of the Senior HR Professionals.
Any Comments, you are welcome.
-Srinaren
From India, Bangalore
I feel Chandru has become more emotional and trying the impress on the status that Management is overruling the HR community. It may be true in some cases wherein the Management least bothers about the ethics of business, does not care for the people who makes them (the Management) earn money for their investment and believe that without them the Management can not survive! Most of these type of industries/Organisations are small in nature and only intention is to make/earn returns for their investment.
Probably, some medium scaled companies also have this problem. This may be because of the wrong introduction of policies and procedures by our own HR community people! Not only this, because of the immaturity or lack of knowledge of laws, they formulate something which is lacking in all aspects and over a period that becomes a management policy. This will continue till a professional who is equipped with experience, sound knowledge and conviction tells the Management that what is being followed requires to be changed.
I completely agree with Siva, that one should have the courage and conviction to tell the Management that we need to honour the Law of the Land. Now, many of the Buyers from abroad have brought in Social Compliance for the Exporters to be followed which is based on the Law of the Land and International Labour Organisation laws. If the Management does not follow the rules, they will be disqualified to do the business with them. But, many rules have lot of flaws because these are the laws formulated in 1947 and are outdated. The Government of India has to take the review of all these out dated laws in consultation with the Captains of the Industry.
I am also having 30 years of industrial experience where in all these years I have fought with many Managements and made them realise their wrong policies. While doing so, I never bothered about my job. I feel an HR person or for that matter a Manager should be PEOPLE CENTRIC WITH THE MANAGEMENT AND MANAGEMENT CENTRIC WITH THE WORKERS. In my experience workers will definitely are matured enough that what you are doing is good for them or not when you impartially weigh the situations and take the decisions.
My intention of posting this subject was to make our brothers and sisters of the HR Community to understand what is law, what is to be followed with the inputs of the Senior HR Professionals.
Any Comments, you are welcome.
-Srinaren
From India, Bangalore
I can tell in Short.
Production Linked Incetive Scheme
* We have to issue a office circular in file,notic bord and cc to labour inspector that we have started this kind of scheme.
* We cannot pay it every month. yes You can give a lumbsum amount means round figure amount as advance in production bonus like if some body have bonus 8300 of june month, then we can pay upto Rs 7500. if we pay fully 8300, it will call as wages, then you know ESI and PF will come like Iran and magnet.
* We should pay it quartly basis. then no pf & esi dept will raise any question on that.
Regards,
Pawan Darda
GM in MNC
Jaipur
From India, Rajkot
Production Linked Incetive Scheme
* We have to issue a office circular in file,notic bord and cc to labour inspector that we have started this kind of scheme.
* We cannot pay it every month. yes You can give a lumbsum amount means round figure amount as advance in production bonus like if some body have bonus 8300 of june month, then we can pay upto Rs 7500. if we pay fully 8300, it will call as wages, then you know ESI and PF will come like Iran and magnet.
* We should pay it quartly basis. then no pf & esi dept will raise any question on that.
Regards,
Pawan Darda
GM in MNC
Jaipur
From India, Rajkot
Dear Sir/s,
Myself Sujay Rao -Sr.Manager HR in one of the reputed Company in Goa, would like to intervene and say that we in our Company our representing this issue in the ESIC Office at Goa, and as given cases we have given case laws of Whirlpool V/s ESIC, Ramachandran v/s ESIC reported in 1974 (46)FLR page 73, which says the words ‘additional remuneration ’ given in the definition ought to be interpreted in context with the earlier part of inclusive definition. Additional remuneration must be remuneration which though, not part of the wages, could be paid as part of terms of contract of employment.
Since the point is that Incentives should not be a part of the Contract, ie no any agreement in the appointment letter or in the Charter of Demand should be mentioned.
Secondly, scheme will have to be frequently changed,
Thirdly, Remuneration if any paid at intervals not exceeding two months being payable.
If we succeed in the matter we shall be saving a lot on paying ESIC on Incentives.
Sujay Rao
From India, Pune
Myself Sujay Rao -Sr.Manager HR in one of the reputed Company in Goa, would like to intervene and say that we in our Company our representing this issue in the ESIC Office at Goa, and as given cases we have given case laws of Whirlpool V/s ESIC, Ramachandran v/s ESIC reported in 1974 (46)FLR page 73, which says the words ‘additional remuneration ’ given in the definition ought to be interpreted in context with the earlier part of inclusive definition. Additional remuneration must be remuneration which though, not part of the wages, could be paid as part of terms of contract of employment.
Since the point is that Incentives should not be a part of the Contract, ie no any agreement in the appointment letter or in the Charter of Demand should be mentioned.
Secondly, scheme will have to be frequently changed,
Thirdly, Remuneration if any paid at intervals not exceeding two months being payable.
If we succeed in the matter we shall be saving a lot on paying ESIC on Incentives.
Sujay Rao
From India, Pune
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