Hi all,
I joined company X on Jan 31, 2023 and my relieving date is June 31, 2023 (DOE is not yet updated in EPFO). I was on bench at company X and before my relieving, I joined another company Y on May 22, 2023 and I was relieved on Sep 22, 2023.
Now my concern is regarding dual employment. Company Y hasn't yet created a member ID for me. Now I have joined Company Z on Oct 04, 2023 and they are going to create a member ID for me.
If company Y creates a member ID, then I have to face an issue with Dual employment.
May I have your suggestions if it is possible now for Company Y to create a member ID for me? Within how many days of an employee's joining, can a company create a member ID? If company Y can create a member ID, can I ask them to update my DOJ to be some date on July 2023 and transfer my PF arrears for month May and June?
May I have your suggestions please!
From India, Chennai
1I joined company X on Jan 31, 2023 and my relieving date is June 31, 2023 (DOE is not yet updated in EPFO). I was on bench at company X and before my relieving, I joined another company Y on May 22, 2023 and I was relieved on Sep 22, 2023.
Now my concern is regarding dual employment. Company Y hasn't yet created a member ID for me. Now I have joined Company Z on Oct 04, 2023 and they are going to create a member ID for me.
If company Y creates a member ID, then I have to face an issue with Dual employment.
May I have your suggestions if it is possible now for Company Y to create a member ID for me? Within how many days of an employee's joining, can a company create a member ID? If company Y can create a member ID, can I ask them to update my DOJ to be some date on July 2023 and transfer my PF arrears for month May and June?
May I have your suggestions please!
From India, Chennai
An employer is expected to create member id on the UAN already created on the same day of the joining of the employee. That is why the employer is asking for your UAN on joining. X or Y is not the headache of the new employer, Z, to create the member id. Any overlapping service should be taken care of by the employee himself.
If you have worked with X company till June 30th (there is no date called 31st June in my calendar!) you cannot join Y company on 22nd May 2023. If the Company X has paid you salary till June 30th, obviously, they should have contributed to your PF till that date. Then changing the date is not possible. If the company Y has paid you salary from 22nd May 2023 and contributed to your PF from that date, the date of joining cannot be changed.
You said that "Company Y hasn't yet created a member ID for me". If this means that Company Y has not registered you under EPF, then you can ask them to make your date of joining to be 1st July 2023. If you have mentioned this date as the date of joining in Company Y in your CV and application for employment submitted to Company Z then there is no issue provided Company Y is willing to put that date. In the absence of registration by Company Y, they should not have contributed to your PF also. When they create member id now (register you under PF) on a date prior to the current date (1st July) they will have to pay Interest and Damages as per relevant sections ( section 7Q and14B) of the EPF and MP Act. Will they do it or just hide your service from PF records? Many establishments do such adjustments and I am afraid, they will not create any PF member id for you and pay contributions retrospectively. Then, you need not insist to do it, I advise. Anyway, if your contributions have been deducted from the date of joining, non remittance of PF would lead to criminal offence and the person (employer of whoever is named in form 5A of the EPF) could be behind the BARS! Delay would attract interests and damages but deducting the contribution from PF but not remitting the same to the employees PF account is a serious crime coming under the provisions of Indian Penal Code. Therefore, I strongly believe that they would just skip your service. If so, there is nothing wrong for you. Some companies even pay back the amounts deducted from you. But what is to be ensured is your service certificate should have date of joining as 1st July. Anyway, you have done a serious misconduct of joining another company (company Y) while being employed in another company (company X) This can be compensated by omission by the Company Y to register under EPF.
If you forget the PF of Y company, then there will not be any overlapping service. Company Z can create member id on the same UAN generated by the first company and start contributing. You can tell the HR of the company Z that you did not have PF in Company Y. It is immaterial for the HR to know also. In form 11 you can mention the UAN and member id created by Company X only.
Hope the above would work.
From India, Kannur
If you have worked with X company till June 30th (there is no date called 31st June in my calendar!) you cannot join Y company on 22nd May 2023. If the Company X has paid you salary till June 30th, obviously, they should have contributed to your PF till that date. Then changing the date is not possible. If the company Y has paid you salary from 22nd May 2023 and contributed to your PF from that date, the date of joining cannot be changed.
You said that "Company Y hasn't yet created a member ID for me". If this means that Company Y has not registered you under EPF, then you can ask them to make your date of joining to be 1st July 2023. If you have mentioned this date as the date of joining in Company Y in your CV and application for employment submitted to Company Z then there is no issue provided Company Y is willing to put that date. In the absence of registration by Company Y, they should not have contributed to your PF also. When they create member id now (register you under PF) on a date prior to the current date (1st July) they will have to pay Interest and Damages as per relevant sections ( section 7Q and14B) of the EPF and MP Act. Will they do it or just hide your service from PF records? Many establishments do such adjustments and I am afraid, they will not create any PF member id for you and pay contributions retrospectively. Then, you need not insist to do it, I advise. Anyway, if your contributions have been deducted from the date of joining, non remittance of PF would lead to criminal offence and the person (employer of whoever is named in form 5A of the EPF) could be behind the BARS! Delay would attract interests and damages but deducting the contribution from PF but not remitting the same to the employees PF account is a serious crime coming under the provisions of Indian Penal Code. Therefore, I strongly believe that they would just skip your service. If so, there is nothing wrong for you. Some companies even pay back the amounts deducted from you. But what is to be ensured is your service certificate should have date of joining as 1st July. Anyway, you have done a serious misconduct of joining another company (company Y) while being employed in another company (company X) This can be compensated by omission by the Company Y to register under EPF.
If you forget the PF of Y company, then there will not be any overlapping service. Company Z can create member id on the same UAN generated by the first company and start contributing. You can tell the HR of the company Z that you did not have PF in Company Y. It is immaterial for the HR to know also. In form 11 you can mention the UAN and member id created by Company X only.
Hope the above would work.
From India, Kannur
Hii Madhu,
Thanks so much for the reply and advise!, yes I mistakenly mentioned my last working date with Company X as June 31, 2023. It is actually June 30, 2023.
I asked HR of company Y to change my joining date on relieving letter, but they said it will be May 22, 2023 only.
They have deducted amount from my salary every month towards PF, but not created member ID for me yet and. So If they now create a PF for me paying the amount from May 22, 2023, then I will be in trouble. So I had asked them to put PF from July month, and I am still waiting for their reply. So as per your advice I won't insist it again and let me see what they are coming up it.
I also saw a video where it was mentioned it is not possible to create member ID post 60 days. Not sure if it is relevant to my case. I am attaching the screenshot for your kind reference.
I have not shown company Y experience to company Z and I am not going to show in future also. I just hope they don't create PF account at all for me.
From India, Chennai
Thanks so much for the reply and advise!, yes I mistakenly mentioned my last working date with Company X as June 31, 2023. It is actually June 30, 2023.
I asked HR of company Y to change my joining date on relieving letter, but they said it will be May 22, 2023 only.
They have deducted amount from my salary every month towards PF, but not created member ID for me yet and. So If they now create a PF for me paying the amount from May 22, 2023, then I will be in trouble. So I had asked them to put PF from July month, and I am still waiting for their reply. So as per your advice I won't insist it again and let me see what they are coming up it.
I also saw a video where it was mentioned it is not possible to create member ID post 60 days. Not sure if it is relevant to my case. I am attaching the screenshot for your kind reference.
I have not shown company Y experience to company Z and I am not going to show in future also. I just hope they don't create PF account at all for me.
From India, Chennai
I don't think that in respect of any left employee they will create PF account and attract penal interest and damages. Therefore, go ahead with a presumption that you did not work with company Y
It is interesting that a company is very adamant in not changing the date of joining whereas the compliance part is very very weak.
From India, Kannur
It is interesting that a company is very adamant in not changing the date of joining whereas the compliance part is very very weak.
From India, Kannur
Hello Sir,
Company Y said 1. PF system doesn't allow to create an overlapping dates now, so they asked me to get the company X LWD to be before May 22 2023 if I want PF money, and then they will put PF amount for me paying interest. They also said they will not create PF from July 1, 2023.
2. Else to forego the PF.
So I decided to forego PF.
Now In my PF service history, company Y will not be listed. My concern is regarding Form 16. This company Y will be listed in Form 16 for this financial year.
I have following question:
Does company Y appearing on my Form 16 for this financial year will be a problem during any of my future BGV in a new companies I am going to join? If it may be a problem, then how can I ask company Y to not include my details in Form 16? Thanks in advance!
From India, Chennai
Company Y said 1. PF system doesn't allow to create an overlapping dates now, so they asked me to get the company X LWD to be before May 22 2023 if I want PF money, and then they will put PF amount for me paying interest. They also said they will not create PF from July 1, 2023.
2. Else to forego the PF.
So I decided to forego PF.
Now In my PF service history, company Y will not be listed. My concern is regarding Form 16. This company Y will be listed in Form 16 for this financial year.
I have following question:
Does company Y appearing on my Form 16 for this financial year will be a problem during any of my future BGV in a new companies I am going to join? If it may be a problem, then how can I ask company Y to not include my details in Form 16? Thanks in advance!
From India, Chennai
The coverage or non coverage under PF is not the headache of any background verification agency. If they say about company Y, you can say that they did not create PF account for me and that is not my headache. Can the background verifying agency take action against company Y, No. Putting incorrect exit dates and overlapping services are very common human errors and for that an employee cannot be punished.
From India, Kannur
From India, Kannur
Hello Sir,
I am going to hide company Y employment experience completely. As PF account won't created for company Y, it will not reflect in my EPFO portal.
However, this company Y will be listed in Form 16 for this financial year.
With Form 16, can my future employers know about dual employment?
Does company Y appearing on my Form 16 for this financial year will be a problem during any of my future BGV in a new companies I am going to join? If it may be a problem, then how can I ask company Y to not include my details in Form 16?
From India, Chennai
I am going to hide company Y employment experience completely. As PF account won't created for company Y, it will not reflect in my EPFO portal.
However, this company Y will be listed in Form 16 for this financial year.
With Form 16, can my future employers know about dual employment?
Does company Y appearing on my Form 16 for this financial year will be a problem during any of my future BGV in a new companies I am going to join? If it may be a problem, then how can I ask company Y to not include my details in Form 16?
From India, Chennai
Hello Sir,
Nowadays Background verification agencies are asking consent to access 26AS statement along with EPFO.
I wrongly mentioned Form 16 instead of 26AS, but companies are accessing employees ITIR login by asking to accept in a software tool.
"Please provide consent to share your 26AS statement and or EPFO Service History using your ITR login and or EPFO login respectively. If you are a not registered user, Google ITR registration and or UAN registration respectively to register"
I have attached an image for your kind reference.
From India, Chennai
Nowadays Background verification agencies are asking consent to access 26AS statement along with EPFO.
I wrongly mentioned Form 16 instead of 26AS, but companies are accessing employees ITIR login by asking to accept in a software tool.
"Please provide consent to share your 26AS statement and or EPFO Service History using your ITR login and or EPFO login respectively. If you are a not registered user, Google ITR registration and or UAN registration respectively to register"
I have attached an image for your kind reference.
From India, Chennai
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