Dear friends,
I missed you all for few days.
I am really glad to be back and participate in this purposeful forum.
I see very many interesting discussions going on.
Special thanks for the message from Mr. Dipil and his earnest attempt to keep the forum lively too.
Now on to business:
Please my friends don’t take H.W. Heinrich’s or others formula for first aid cases, lost time cases and fatal accidents. It is not going to help you any way. At a time when nothing was done or known or even considered accident prevention as a necessity these were of much help.
Now consider -in a country like India can you get accident statistics for the past year? And if one is available is it reliable ?
Answer is NO !
Have you got a perfect accident reporting, investigating, analyzing and documenting system in your organization ?
- most probably no. If you have you are lucky. Consider those documents seriously and derive at your own formula which will be fool proof.
In most cases industries manipulate accident records for some false prestige. Often Safety Officers also form part of this type of documentation for they are to show loyalty.
But privately one can take interest in this matter and collect data for a minimum period of three years to derive at a clear picture.
End of 19th century and beginning of 20th century the conditions were so bad. Even in 1931 when Heinrich brought out his book with his domino theory and the formula it was not that different.
What could be the ratio of first aid cases, LTA and fatal accident with the condition prevailing at that time may not suit now ?
Let us be realistic. Let us put forth some effort and find new things instead of blindly worshipping what ever is written by others. Let us start questioning those and be effective at this age I pray.
Regards,
KESAVA PILLAI
From India, Kollam
252I missed you all for few days.
I am really glad to be back and participate in this purposeful forum.
I see very many interesting discussions going on.
Special thanks for the message from Mr. Dipil and his earnest attempt to keep the forum lively too.
Now on to business:
Please my friends don’t take H.W. Heinrich’s or others formula for first aid cases, lost time cases and fatal accidents. It is not going to help you any way. At a time when nothing was done or known or even considered accident prevention as a necessity these were of much help.
Now consider -in a country like India can you get accident statistics for the past year? And if one is available is it reliable ?
Answer is NO !
Have you got a perfect accident reporting, investigating, analyzing and documenting system in your organization ?
- most probably no. If you have you are lucky. Consider those documents seriously and derive at your own formula which will be fool proof.
In most cases industries manipulate accident records for some false prestige. Often Safety Officers also form part of this type of documentation for they are to show loyalty.
But privately one can take interest in this matter and collect data for a minimum period of three years to derive at a clear picture.
End of 19th century and beginning of 20th century the conditions were so bad. Even in 1931 when Heinrich brought out his book with his domino theory and the formula it was not that different.
What could be the ratio of first aid cases, LTA and fatal accident with the condition prevailing at that time may not suit now ?
Let us be realistic. Let us put forth some effort and find new things instead of blindly worshipping what ever is written by others. Let us start questioning those and be effective at this age I pray.
Regards,
KESAVA PILLAI
From India, Kollam
Dear Sir
Very nice to see you back into the forum discussion with a great thought...
I agree with your views and will definitly start recording the real figure of accidents happening in my organization to come to a self conclusion after few years... After may be two or three years our this forum is alive, I will come back with my genuine figure on which me may can further discuss...
Even though in our organization a positive culture exist where all are free to report accidents and near misses, the figure of formal reporting is very less... There is a circular from the corporate level promoting the reporting of incidents which is clearly mentioning there will be no punitive action against the reported cases... Even though the reporting is very less... Really situation needs improvemet...
Thanks once again to come forward with such a great thought...
From India
Very nice to see you back into the forum discussion with a great thought...
I agree with your views and will definitly start recording the real figure of accidents happening in my organization to come to a self conclusion after few years... After may be two or three years our this forum is alive, I will come back with my genuine figure on which me may can further discuss...
Even though in our organization a positive culture exist where all are free to report accidents and near misses, the figure of formal reporting is very less... There is a circular from the corporate level promoting the reporting of incidents which is clearly mentioning there will be no punitive action against the reported cases... Even though the reporting is very less... Really situation needs improvemet...
Thanks once again to come forward with such a great thought...
From India
Dear Kesav sir,
Welcome back sir. In my organization we have followed good record keepings but myself I am not taken serious about records 12 to 18 months I protect my site documents / reports and send to trashbin.Now only u open my eyes I realized the importance/value of reports/paper work (When I start my career as a EHS I don’t have any seniors independently I was handle construction sites in India same thing happened in overseas yes now also I don’t have any seniors if I have any small query’s I have wait for long time sometimes my client/construction managers help to solve me sir).when I join in this forum then only I got lot of informative information’s about our EHS field from our EHS members .I must say thanks to all EHS members specially Mr.Kesav,Mr.dipil,Mr.KVS,Mr.abhay,Mr.hansa,Mr.firo z etc. I am sure I will back with excellent chart within 2 or 3 years.
I know one thing clearly lot of our EHS Members/seniors not participates (due to time/busy schedule) but they are all watching us please come forward share your experience with us. . .
Thanks & Be safe
Raghu
“I am not totally waste/useless I used as a bad example"
From United States, Fpo
Welcome back sir. In my organization we have followed good record keepings but myself I am not taken serious about records 12 to 18 months I protect my site documents / reports and send to trashbin.Now only u open my eyes I realized the importance/value of reports/paper work (When I start my career as a EHS I don’t have any seniors independently I was handle construction sites in India same thing happened in overseas yes now also I don’t have any seniors if I have any small query’s I have wait for long time sometimes my client/construction managers help to solve me sir).when I join in this forum then only I got lot of informative information’s about our EHS field from our EHS members .I must say thanks to all EHS members specially Mr.Kesav,Mr.dipil,Mr.KVS,Mr.abhay,Mr.hansa,Mr.firo z etc. I am sure I will back with excellent chart within 2 or 3 years.
I know one thing clearly lot of our EHS Members/seniors not participates (due to time/busy schedule) but they are all watching us please come forward share your experience with us. . .
Thanks & Be safe
Raghu
“I am not totally waste/useless I used as a bad example"
From United States, Fpo
Wel-Come Back Sir , We really missed you . Hope we will get new topics to update our knowledge on various safety aspects in coming days. Thanks & Regards, Abhay
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Kesava,
Nice to see you back. I was also, unable to participate in the discussions due to official & personal issues.
In our company, we are having a seperate tracking system, in which a team is working globally. Also, in our KPI, these reportings are included. In our organisation, if we are not reporting, it affects our career.
I have the company data (only for official purpose) from last 2009. But the problem is I cannot share the same in our forum due to the internal restricitions.
Apart from this, we are also suppose to inform the local authorities, according to the legal requirement, incase of any reportables (by god's grace we did not have any such kind of issues till date).
Now a question -
When we are talking about these false reporting issues, then what is the use of having the safety statistics board at the gate of industries?
Once again - thanks to Dipil for taking a lot of initiatives & Ragu - I too learnt many things from you all, by your valuable inputs. Thanks for that too.
Thanks & Regards,
From India, Delhi
Nice to see you back. I was also, unable to participate in the discussions due to official & personal issues.
In our company, we are having a seperate tracking system, in which a team is working globally. Also, in our KPI, these reportings are included. In our organisation, if we are not reporting, it affects our career.
I have the company data (only for official purpose) from last 2009. But the problem is I cannot share the same in our forum due to the internal restricitions.
Apart from this, we are also suppose to inform the local authorities, according to the legal requirement, incase of any reportables (by god's grace we did not have any such kind of issues till date).
Now a question -
When we are talking about these false reporting issues, then what is the use of having the safety statistics board at the gate of industries?
Once again - thanks to Dipil for taking a lot of initiatives & Ragu - I too learnt many things from you all, by your valuable inputs. Thanks for that too.
Thanks & Regards,
From India, Delhi
Dear Sir,
Greetings!!!
In our company, we categorized those into Reportable and Non-Reportable Accidents.
Our Safety Officer has have a separate role to add everything to our Plant Head in person and the same recorded in a note-book, kept in the factory manager itself.
Even we are giving more preferences on near missed too and all type of accidents and taking preventive solutions like adding a sensor near machines and whichever possible to the type of accidents and ensuring not to happen such accident in future.
I feel our tracking mechanism and preventive actions against the accidents, are sound in my company.
Thanks & Regards,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
Greetings!!!
In our company, we categorized those into Reportable and Non-Reportable Accidents.
Our Safety Officer has have a separate role to add everything to our Plant Head in person and the same recorded in a note-book, kept in the factory manager itself.
Even we are giving more preferences on near missed too and all type of accidents and taking preventive solutions like adding a sensor near machines and whichever possible to the type of accidents and ensuring not to happen such accident in future.
I feel our tracking mechanism and preventive actions against the accidents, are sound in my company.
Thanks & Regards,
Jana
From India, Jhajjar
Dear Mr.Janarthanan,
Good that you expressed satisfaction over your reporting system.
But are sure that it works well and is the best ? Otherwise is there no scope for improvement based on professionalism in your reporting system.
Your reportable and non-reportable classification itself makes it controversial for me.
Reportable cases are specified in your statute. As per applicable statutes you may consider only reportable cases. But what criteria you employ to categorize reportable and non-reportable cases in your internal system. Satisfying statutory authorities is one thing and analyzing accident to avoid recurrence is another. Am I not correct in stating that for a safetyman every incident irrespective of its outcome is reportable ?
What makes an accident fatal, Lost time or first aid case ?
Can you accept that accident remaining the same result only can differ ?
There is more to it and I am sure we can do better.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
Good that you expressed satisfaction over your reporting system.
But are sure that it works well and is the best ? Otherwise is there no scope for improvement based on professionalism in your reporting system.
Your reportable and non-reportable classification itself makes it controversial for me.
Reportable cases are specified in your statute. As per applicable statutes you may consider only reportable cases. But what criteria you employ to categorize reportable and non-reportable cases in your internal system. Satisfying statutory authorities is one thing and analyzing accident to avoid recurrence is another. Am I not correct in stating that for a safetyman every incident irrespective of its outcome is reportable ?
What makes an accident fatal, Lost time or first aid case ?
Can you accept that accident remaining the same result only can differ ?
There is more to it and I am sure we can do better.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
@Rahhu
In your post you have mentioned about the senior... In my view its good to some extend but in other way getting an oppertunity to self manage will help us in improve our own skills and implement the things as per our concept... If you got a senior who is having no sharing mentality, then its of no use... If one got a senior like Keshav Pillai, who is having perfect knowledge and sharing mentality, then it's count a lot... Otherwise alone is well and good... My personal life experience is what I said...
@ Keshav Sir
After come into contact with senior like you through this forum, my entire learning and behaviour changes a lot... Proudly i debate with technical details with people in my organization... Few examples like, use of 24volt in confined space, which is more dangerous AC or DC & LPG or DA, Health hazards in oxygen enriched atmosphere, etc... My heartiest thanks to you and its so lucky to be in touch through this forum, even though not get a chance to work under a boss like you...
Keep on guiding us...
From India
In your post you have mentioned about the senior... In my view its good to some extend but in other way getting an oppertunity to self manage will help us in improve our own skills and implement the things as per our concept... If you got a senior who is having no sharing mentality, then its of no use... If one got a senior like Keshav Pillai, who is having perfect knowledge and sharing mentality, then it's count a lot... Otherwise alone is well and good... My personal life experience is what I said...
@ Keshav Sir
After come into contact with senior like you through this forum, my entire learning and behaviour changes a lot... Proudly i debate with technical details with people in my organization... Few examples like, use of 24volt in confined space, which is more dangerous AC or DC & LPG or DA, Health hazards in oxygen enriched atmosphere, etc... My heartiest thanks to you and its so lucky to be in touch through this forum, even though not get a chance to work under a boss like you...
Keep on guiding us...
From India
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