Sir, I and 04 other Executives recruited and posted by a PSU at its one of the joint venture company with a state government. We are being subjected of physical, mental and social trauma for the past 05 years because of the prejudicial behavior by our employer as we have not been given the revised pay w.e.f. 01.01.2007 ( even it was mentioned in advertisement) and promotions since joining. We have applied to the PSU open advertisement and interviewed by them and based on interview, we have got the Offer of Appoint from its Joint venture company and posted here.Full management of JV is controlled by PSU company only.After joining here employer is saying that you will be treated as JV company employee as you had accepted offer from JV company. They have not informed the same before joining that this is a other entity.This JV company is till date not having any policies related to pay and perks,promotions etc. Now they are going to form companies policies like pay structures,promotion policy etc after 05 years of our joining.
Kindly give the legal view on the issue as we are asking the company management to treat us as a your employee because you have advertised and interviewed us and posted at your JV. Also it was mentioned in the interview letter that we can be posted any of its JV / subsidiaries.
Please suggest me.
From India, Chennai
Kindly give the legal view on the issue as we are asking the company management to treat us as a your employee because you have advertised and interviewed us and posted at your JV. Also it was mentioned in the interview letter that we can be posted any of its JV / subsidiaries.
Please suggest me.
From India, Chennai
JV company policies differ from the PSU. It is your mistake without analysing properly. e.g. NTPC has stake in more than dozen JVs. One can't expect the pay structure of JVs at par with NTPC. Of course, some JVs are paying more than the PSUs. It depends on the policies framed by the JV partners, their line of business, prifitability, etc.
Pon, Chennai
From India, Lucknow
604Pon, Chennai
From India, Lucknow
Reference to my post, please tell the followings?
1. How a company (JV of a reputed maharatna company) recruit an employee without forming their basic policies and pay structures etc?
2. Why JV company cheated by wrong promise that they will pay at par with PSU. If they are not able to pay, why they taken the reference of PSU advertisement? If they have taken the reference of a advertisement, they are suppose to pay at par with our advertisement.
From India, Chennai
1. How a company (JV of a reputed maharatna company) recruit an employee without forming their basic policies and pay structures etc?
2. Why JV company cheated by wrong promise that they will pay at par with PSU. If they are not able to pay, why they taken the reference of PSU advertisement? If they have taken the reference of a advertisement, they are suppose to pay at par with our advertisement.
From India, Chennai
"At Par" is a subjective term. E.g. : Only Basic will be at Par.
Usually PSUs in their advts state that they will be absorbed in their own company or their subsidaries, not their JVs. The JV is an separate entity with its own BOD.
Again, the salary structure of even the PSU and its subsidaries may be different and the option rests with the company where to post a candidate - In the PSU or in its Subsidaries. But then again, its clearly mentioned in the Ad, that the candidate may be placed in the PSU or any of its subsidaries. Difficult to believe that a PSU would make such an error.
Management control even if full, does not imply pay parity. But I am surprised that a Maharatna PSU or even the State Govt would make such a silly error. The exact advertisement needs to be seen. Perhaps you could provide a link or post a copy of the newspaper cutting before anything can be adviced.
From India, Purulia
Usually PSUs in their advts state that they will be absorbed in their own company or their subsidaries, not their JVs. The JV is an separate entity with its own BOD.
Again, the salary structure of even the PSU and its subsidaries may be different and the option rests with the company where to post a candidate - In the PSU or in its Subsidaries. But then again, its clearly mentioned in the Ad, that the candidate may be placed in the PSU or any of its subsidaries. Difficult to believe that a PSU would make such an error.
Management control even if full, does not imply pay parity. But I am surprised that a Maharatna PSU or even the State Govt would make such a silly error. The exact advertisement needs to be seen. Perhaps you could provide a link or post a copy of the newspaper cutting before anything can be adviced.
From India, Purulia
Just forgot to add that most PSUs specifically Maharatnas have a definitive process for recruitment for its Executives say. Written Test - GD/Interview. A few candidates are recruited directly from premier institutes. This is, except in case of Medical Practitioners in the company hospitals where there maybe just an interview. Again, its extremely rare that PSU recruit people in the middle cadre, infact at any level but the trainee stage. Recruitment is for Trainees or parallel transfer/appointments at the very highest level e.g. Chairman made through the Ministry & Bureau of Public Enterprises.
Next, a PSU employee (executive) maybe transferred from his unit (with the PSU) to its subsidaries (same/not same - scale of pay). His basic will be protected but will then be fitted (fitment) in that subsidaries scale of pay & perks. Again, many PSUs have nowadays a common scale for its subsidaries & its own units.
Again, an employee may co-opt for transfer to a JV Co. of the PSU (assuming there are vacanies and both the parties agree on parallel transfer) but then its only through mutual consent.
PSUs might be slow in their processes but wont do anything against the Principles of Natural Justice or law of the land. Well, the RTI route is always open .......... but be ABSOLUTELY sure about the wordings in the actual Advt before filing an RTI.
Thanks & Regards
From India, Purulia
Next, a PSU employee (executive) maybe transferred from his unit (with the PSU) to its subsidaries (same/not same - scale of pay). His basic will be protected but will then be fitted (fitment) in that subsidaries scale of pay & perks. Again, many PSUs have nowadays a common scale for its subsidaries & its own units.
Again, an employee may co-opt for transfer to a JV Co. of the PSU (assuming there are vacanies and both the parties agree on parallel transfer) but then its only through mutual consent.
PSUs might be slow in their processes but wont do anything against the Principles of Natural Justice or law of the land. Well, the RTI route is always open .......... but be ABSOLUTELY sure about the wordings in the actual Advt before filing an RTI.
Thanks & Regards
From India, Purulia
Dear dineshsinghntecl,
I checked up the NTPC job site for the said advt for the detailed terms & conditions. It wasn't there since your appointment was around January 2007, perhaps they have removed old posts from their website.
However, after going through the Annexures, I will like to point out Annexure II, Point.E, which states :
Posting is likely to be at any of our Projects/Units/Stations/ Joint Venture Companies / Subsidaries depending on requirement / exigencies of work.
1. So posting can be in JVs & Subsidaries too.
2. Pay scale at the JV or Subsidary may not be that of a PSU. In many of the Maharatna subsidiaries in those years i.e. 2007 abouts, the scale was lower than in the Co itself. Later, many PSUs brought them to the same level as that of the parent Co. In case of a JV, which is a separate Co, service rules will be regulated by the rules of the JV & not the parent Co.
3. If you keep a track of the big & better PSUs, you will notice that recruitment is done for Management Trainees. The period of training is 1 year and then they are placed with 2 or more advance increment in the E1 scale. In this advt, the requirement is for E2, E3 & E4 levels. Again, its a call for direct interview instead of the normal process of Written test + GD/Interview which is usually followed for the MTs. It is clear that the advt was mainly for their subsidiaries & JVs. NTPC like other Maharatnas don't induct in the E2-E4 scale and prefer fresh young people. Such big companies are really not dependent on the experience - they already have a lot of experience within their own ranks. Again, I would like to clarify that it is possible for the PSU to intake in E2-E4 or any rank for that matter, since there aren't any documented rules preventing/barring such recruitment.
4. Annexure-I doesent have any pay scales mentioned. Not sure about the detailed advt since I haven't seen it.
But from what I have seen in the above 3 annexures, you really cant complain since it clearly mentions that you may be posted at the JVs or Subsidaries. With no pay scale mentioned (here I mean detailed payscale in each of the levels recruited), it is open to be understood as anything. Also the appointment letter gives your scale of pay and you accepted their offer willingly. E1 or E2 or anything doesent mean NTPC scale E1 or E2. You might be aware that PSUs are divided into 3 broad classes - earlier A+, A, B & C now Maharatnas, Navaratnas & Miniratnas depending on various factors. THe E1 (or any rank) scale of each of these category companies vary. Even within the same category, other things vary like No. of advanced increments, perks, facilities and other prior Basic-DA mergers during wage revision. So there may be slight differences.
Hence, there is no case behind your expectation. You cannot take a legal recourse & neither would a RTI help in any way.
Thanks & Regards
PS : NTPC has a JV with SAIL and the pay is almost equal to NTPC/SAIL scales of pay. Scale of pay in a JV depends on the JV companies and their scale of pay. I wouldn't be surprised if your scale is at the same level as the state Govt scale.
From India, Purulia
I checked up the NTPC job site for the said advt for the detailed terms & conditions. It wasn't there since your appointment was around January 2007, perhaps they have removed old posts from their website.
However, after going through the Annexures, I will like to point out Annexure II, Point.E, which states :
Posting is likely to be at any of our Projects/Units/Stations/ Joint Venture Companies / Subsidaries depending on requirement / exigencies of work.
1. So posting can be in JVs & Subsidaries too.
2. Pay scale at the JV or Subsidary may not be that of a PSU. In many of the Maharatna subsidiaries in those years i.e. 2007 abouts, the scale was lower than in the Co itself. Later, many PSUs brought them to the same level as that of the parent Co. In case of a JV, which is a separate Co, service rules will be regulated by the rules of the JV & not the parent Co.
3. If you keep a track of the big & better PSUs, you will notice that recruitment is done for Management Trainees. The period of training is 1 year and then they are placed with 2 or more advance increment in the E1 scale. In this advt, the requirement is for E2, E3 & E4 levels. Again, its a call for direct interview instead of the normal process of Written test + GD/Interview which is usually followed for the MTs. It is clear that the advt was mainly for their subsidiaries & JVs. NTPC like other Maharatnas don't induct in the E2-E4 scale and prefer fresh young people. Such big companies are really not dependent on the experience - they already have a lot of experience within their own ranks. Again, I would like to clarify that it is possible for the PSU to intake in E2-E4 or any rank for that matter, since there aren't any documented rules preventing/barring such recruitment.
4. Annexure-I doesent have any pay scales mentioned. Not sure about the detailed advt since I haven't seen it.
But from what I have seen in the above 3 annexures, you really cant complain since it clearly mentions that you may be posted at the JVs or Subsidaries. With no pay scale mentioned (here I mean detailed payscale in each of the levels recruited), it is open to be understood as anything. Also the appointment letter gives your scale of pay and you accepted their offer willingly. E1 or E2 or anything doesent mean NTPC scale E1 or E2. You might be aware that PSUs are divided into 3 broad classes - earlier A+, A, B & C now Maharatnas, Navaratnas & Miniratnas depending on various factors. THe E1 (or any rank) scale of each of these category companies vary. Even within the same category, other things vary like No. of advanced increments, perks, facilities and other prior Basic-DA mergers during wage revision. So there may be slight differences.
Hence, there is no case behind your expectation. You cannot take a legal recourse & neither would a RTI help in any way.
Thanks & Regards
PS : NTPC has a JV with SAIL and the pay is almost equal to NTPC/SAIL scales of pay. Scale of pay in a JV depends on the JV companies and their scale of pay. I wouldn't be surprised if your scale is at the same level as the state Govt scale.
From India, Purulia
Please see advt (http://www.ntpccareers.net/et14/my_files/advt.pdf) for direct MT recruitment in NTPC (and not subsidiaries or JVs). The scale and the Basic Pay's are clearly mentioned. Just reinforces what I posted above that if the PSU recruits for the parent Co, the scales & the basic will be clearly mentioned and there wont be any ambiguity.
Thanks & Regards
From India, Purulia
Thanks & Regards
From India, Purulia
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