Dear All, This is regarding misbehaviour of a permanent employee working more than 17 years in organisation. From last some months he is caught misbehaving with staff and the external customers. He comes to office drunk, speaks anything to the customers in that position. Also speaks in rude language to his seniors etc...
We had talks with him and orally warned many times. Also issued letter to him to improve performance. But he is not ready to change himself and not improving his behaviour.
Now what kind of letter to be issued to him. Organise domestic enquiry or suspend him or terminate him....
Pl give some guidelines.
sdd
From India, Thana
3We had talks with him and orally warned many times. Also issued letter to him to improve performance. But he is not ready to change himself and not improving his behaviour.
Now what kind of letter to be issued to him. Organise domestic enquiry or suspend him or terminate him....
Pl give some guidelines.
sdd
From India, Thana
Hello sdd,
Based on what you mentioned, the ONLY option seems to be to terminate him--with proper procedure AND documentation in-place.
However, BEFORE you do it, suggest check out a few aspects--since he worked >17 yrs in your company.
Was any effort made to checkout the reasons--which is DIFFERENT from warnings/talking--for his current attitude/behavior? I presume he was OK earlier--else he wouldn't be serving the company for 17 yrs.
If there are any issues w.r.t. official matters that COULD be the reason(s), it becomes imperative that you assist to resolve them. However, if the reason(s) relate to any personal issues--basically bringing personal troubles to office--then you have 2 options. Option-1 is to terminate him. Option-2 is to help him recover & become effective again--but this depends on how much the company VALUES his services/skills.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Based on what you mentioned, the ONLY option seems to be to terminate him--with proper procedure AND documentation in-place.
However, BEFORE you do it, suggest check out a few aspects--since he worked >17 yrs in your company.
Was any effort made to checkout the reasons--which is DIFFERENT from warnings/talking--for his current attitude/behavior? I presume he was OK earlier--else he wouldn't be serving the company for 17 yrs.
If there are any issues w.r.t. official matters that COULD be the reason(s), it becomes imperative that you assist to resolve them. However, if the reason(s) relate to any personal issues--basically bringing personal troubles to office--then you have 2 options. Option-1 is to terminate him. Option-2 is to help him recover & become effective again--but this depends on how much the company VALUES his services/skills.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Sdd
I don't understand the permanent worker who served 17 years is behaving in this matter. Introspect the matter. The misconduct are serious and are punishable under standing order applicable to the company. The service can be easily terminated by issuing charge sheet and proper enquiry. Before that, councelling is important. First try this councelling and if not improved then take appropriate action.
Regards
M.M. Kulkarni
General Manager - HR
From India, Solapur
I don't understand the permanent worker who served 17 years is behaving in this matter. Introspect the matter. The misconduct are serious and are punishable under standing order applicable to the company. The service can be easily terminated by issuing charge sheet and proper enquiry. Before that, councelling is important. First try this councelling and if not improved then take appropriate action.
Regards
M.M. Kulkarni
General Manager - HR
From India, Solapur
Dear TS,
Very valuable suggestions.
Terminations should be used as last resort.
As HR professions we should analyse the reasons why he has started the misbehaviour. It seems as you also mentioned that earlier he may be good employee. Their may be variou reasons :
1 Personal Issues...........see an employees comes to an organisation as Whole Personality. If there are some problems at personal level those would be surfaced at the work also.
2 His Current Status.........it shall be analysed his relations with the superiors and subordinates.why there are changes in his recent behaviour.
3 Gossip and Politics.........wheather he involves himself and be the part of office gossips and politics. Sometimes employees become arrogant due to the politicised environment.
4 Any commitment from the management which is not fulfilled.
5 Any change in the reporting relationships.
After analysing the various reasons,
Try to counsell him to become the better employee.
Involve him in the daily meetings
More intercation shall be developed with him
Involve him in the decisins making.
training and counselling shall definitely helpful for the same.
Thanks
From India, New Delhi
Very valuable suggestions.
Terminations should be used as last resort.
As HR professions we should analyse the reasons why he has started the misbehaviour. It seems as you also mentioned that earlier he may be good employee. Their may be variou reasons :
1 Personal Issues...........see an employees comes to an organisation as Whole Personality. If there are some problems at personal level those would be surfaced at the work also.
2 His Current Status.........it shall be analysed his relations with the superiors and subordinates.why there are changes in his recent behaviour.
3 Gossip and Politics.........wheather he involves himself and be the part of office gossips and politics. Sometimes employees become arrogant due to the politicised environment.
4 Any commitment from the management which is not fulfilled.
5 Any change in the reporting relationships.
After analysing the various reasons,
Try to counsell him to become the better employee.
Involve him in the daily meetings
More intercation shall be developed with him
Involve him in the decisins making.
training and counselling shall definitely helpful for the same.
Thanks
From India, New Delhi
The rules are prepared for all, there is no difference between new or old employees. issue him show cause notice or give him final warning letter. If still he is not improving than terminate him against the indiscipline during the working hours.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Mr. sdd
First of all you should obtain written complaint from the staff and customers with whom the employee concerned misbehaved with proper witness/ evidence - to build up your case.
On the basis of that issue a SCN to him and suspend him till submission of his reply.
If in his reply he submits an apology give him a warning letter and advised not to repeat the same in future give him a change to improve.
If he denies the allegation in his submission set up a Domestic Enquiry and appoint an enquiry officer as required under the ID Act. If you considered it necessary his suspension can be continued till final enquiry report.
If in the enquiry report charges are proved then take an appropriate final action and award a punishment as you and your management deem fit according to the standing orders applicable on your establishment.
Straightaway termination is not advisable. If there is straightway termination it can be turned down by Labour Court if the employee challenges the same.
pkjain
From India, Delhi
First of all you should obtain written complaint from the staff and customers with whom the employee concerned misbehaved with proper witness/ evidence - to build up your case.
On the basis of that issue a SCN to him and suspend him till submission of his reply.
If in his reply he submits an apology give him a warning letter and advised not to repeat the same in future give him a change to improve.
If he denies the allegation in his submission set up a Domestic Enquiry and appoint an enquiry officer as required under the ID Act. If you considered it necessary his suspension can be continued till final enquiry report.
If in the enquiry report charges are proved then take an appropriate final action and award a punishment as you and your management deem fit according to the standing orders applicable on your establishment.
Straightaway termination is not advisable. If there is straightway termination it can be turned down by Labour Court if the employee challenges the same.
pkjain
From India, Delhi
There are two ways to look at the problem. If the unseemly behaviour is caused by external factors l(factors that do not originate from his nature) ike domestic reasons or as Bhardwaj has provided you with a list of them for easy reference, you need to correct them and counsel the employee. If the employee is unruly and indisciplined by his nature, I think the issue needs to be dealt with under the disciplinary rules of your establishment, since the empoyee may mistake a soft approach like counselling for ineffectiveness of the management.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advsior
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Law advsior
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear all,
in the cases of attending duty under the influence of alcohol the first step the Management should take is he should he sent to pathology lab to test the content of alcohol in his blood. If that is not possible then the Management must have witnesses (co-employees) who give statement in writing that the employee was under the influence of alcohol. As per the supreme court the tests are red eyes, smell of alcohol etc. On the very day he was found under influence he can be immedietly suspended by a written letter.After this he can either be issued showcause notice or a chargesheet. In any case if the management wishes to terminate services proper departmental enquiry as per the standing orders is must. If warning or 4 days suspension is to be given then enquiry is not necessary. How many years he has worked in the organisation is not relevant. His earlier misconducts can be used against him as bad past service record while punishing hi. In case of any further doubts I will be happy to advice
S.M.Paranjape. Adv (Labour law Consultant)
9850083760
From India, Pune
in the cases of attending duty under the influence of alcohol the first step the Management should take is he should he sent to pathology lab to test the content of alcohol in his blood. If that is not possible then the Management must have witnesses (co-employees) who give statement in writing that the employee was under the influence of alcohol. As per the supreme court the tests are red eyes, smell of alcohol etc. On the very day he was found under influence he can be immedietly suspended by a written letter.After this he can either be issued showcause notice or a chargesheet. In any case if the management wishes to terminate services proper departmental enquiry as per the standing orders is must. If warning or 4 days suspension is to be given then enquiry is not necessary. How many years he has worked in the organisation is not relevant. His earlier misconducts can be used against him as bad past service record while punishing hi. In case of any further doubts I will be happy to advice
S.M.Paranjape. Adv (Labour law Consultant)
9850083760
From India, Pune
sdd,
No need to think much just issue show cause notice with immediate effect ,if he realize his mistake & is ready to apologize in written & commit as well to retain the office decorum as desired,in thAT case u can retain that employee,otherwise you can appoint an enquiry officer & terminate that person under a major misconduct,There is no need of counselling as it will appreciate him to do the indiscipline agan.So just go for a strict action against the employee as it is priority to maintain a harmonious environment in company.
From India, Delhi
No need to think much just issue show cause notice with immediate effect ,if he realize his mistake & is ready to apologize in written & commit as well to retain the office decorum as desired,in thAT case u can retain that employee,otherwise you can appoint an enquiry officer & terminate that person under a major misconduct,There is no need of counselling as it will appreciate him to do the indiscipline agan.So just go for a strict action against the employee as it is priority to maintain a harmonious environment in company.
From India, Delhi
Hello everyone,
This is a very sensitive issue regarding an employee who served the organization for almost 17 years which should be appreciated first.As an Hr I can say that it should be the first responsibility of an Hr in that organization to be EMPATHETIC.
They should first try to understand what is the reason behind his unaccepted behavior.
To check with his past records that whether such behavior was earlier seen or this is for the first time?
If this kind of behavior is repetitive then the HR should deal it stringently but if it is for the first time then the reason behind this behavior should be traced.
Then the next step is to connect with the employee,communicate with the employee and Counsel him.
If the employer is valuable to the organization then his suspension or termination will put the organization into a loss of manpower.
Thanks
From India, Hyderabad
This is a very sensitive issue regarding an employee who served the organization for almost 17 years which should be appreciated first.As an Hr I can say that it should be the first responsibility of an Hr in that organization to be EMPATHETIC.
They should first try to understand what is the reason behind his unaccepted behavior.
To check with his past records that whether such behavior was earlier seen or this is for the first time?
If this kind of behavior is repetitive then the HR should deal it stringently but if it is for the first time then the reason behind this behavior should be traced.
Then the next step is to connect with the employee,communicate with the employee and Counsel him.
If the employer is valuable to the organization then his suspension or termination will put the organization into a loss of manpower.
Thanks
From India, Hyderabad
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