Hi,
Can anyone help me, I am making an appointment letter and want to know if I can include a clause as- "If anyone getting into unlawful activities getting into a union can be terminated from the company."
Please reply
Regards
Uzma
From India, Mumbai
Can anyone help me, I am making an appointment letter and want to know if I can include a clause as- "If anyone getting into unlawful activities getting into a union can be terminated from the company."
Please reply
Regards
Uzma
From India, Mumbai
Hi uzma,
You cannot. This point is challengable in the court. This is against the Collective bargaining. As per the Factories Act, this is not applicable. Actually, union is a pat of collective bargaining.
Best regards,
From India, Mumbai
2You cannot. This point is challengable in the court. This is against the Collective bargaining. As per the Factories Act, this is not applicable. Actually, union is a pat of collective bargaining.
Best regards,
From India, Mumbai
Dear
Including such a condition amounts to an unfair labor practice.It is absolutely illegal.
With Regards
Advocates & Notaries & Legal Consultants[HR]
E-mail : rajanassociates@eth,net,
Mobile :9840142164- 9025792684.
From India, Bangalore
Including such a condition amounts to an unfair labor practice.It is absolutely illegal.
With Regards
Advocates & Notaries & Legal Consultants[HR]
E-mail : rajanassociates@eth,net,
Mobile :9840142164- 9025792684.
From India, Bangalore
Dear Uzma
I am shocked and surprised at your query.
In fact, I wonder how an HR professional can put up such a query (unless you are not in India). It definitely seems to support what others often say derogatorily about HRM as a profession.
You need to understand what are Unfair Labour Practices; apart from studying HRM afresh. There can not be an excuse for having such opinions which can land the company in legal trouble, the moment the clause is put on the appointment letter and issued.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I am shocked and surprised at your query.
In fact, I wonder how an HR professional can put up such a query (unless you are not in India). It definitely seems to support what others often say derogatorily about HRM as a profession.
You need to understand what are Unfair Labour Practices; apart from studying HRM afresh. There can not be an excuse for having such opinions which can land the company in legal trouble, the moment the clause is put on the appointment letter and issued.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Uzma,
Thank god you checked before including such a clause. If you had done so you would have landed in serious trouble.
You can never prevent anyone from joining an union. But you can certainly prevent employees from joining a union by following fair practices such as payment of reasonable wages (certainly on par or above the stipulated Mininum wages) and all other provisions laid down under the factories act (atleast most of them if not all) counselling them and handling their grievances on time.
All these measures if done at the right time can certainly prevent employees from the thought of forming a union
M.V.KANNAN
From India, Madras
Thank god you checked before including such a clause. If you had done so you would have landed in serious trouble.
You can never prevent anyone from joining an union. But you can certainly prevent employees from joining a union by following fair practices such as payment of reasonable wages (certainly on par or above the stipulated Mininum wages) and all other provisions laid down under the factories act (atleast most of them if not all) counselling them and handling their grievances on time.
All these measures if done at the right time can certainly prevent employees from the thought of forming a union
M.V.KANNAN
From India, Madras
Uzama,
In my opinion it depends, under the "Uniterial theory" (Bipartism) whereby most development country are now adopting in the workplace, union density is declining or none practicable at all because the belief is they may compromise the strategic plans of the organization and besides most of the employed recruited are professionals and qualified personnels. In some situation some international corporate entity investing in underdeveloped or developing country bring with them these ideology with them and may hinder the local Labour Law of the host country However in some country mostly commonwealth they have strong Labour Laws that protects the interest of employees and it is the rights of the employee to join the union which law is supreme but if you are in a deveoping country like USA, some parts of UK like Germany Austria and in Australia labor law or union affiliates are reduced hence the need not to join union because of the workpattern in that country differs like part time or casual or flexi worker and in some instances the country have over qualified personeel that flood the market and increase economic status speaks for it selfs.So if your country have strong labour laws that protects the interest of the employee and the right for union membership then the contract will be contradictory and misleading to cite in the appointment letter (Corporatism theory) or (Tripartism)
Pita Tuiloma
Fiji
From Fiji
In my opinion it depends, under the "Uniterial theory" (Bipartism) whereby most development country are now adopting in the workplace, union density is declining or none practicable at all because the belief is they may compromise the strategic plans of the organization and besides most of the employed recruited are professionals and qualified personnels. In some situation some international corporate entity investing in underdeveloped or developing country bring with them these ideology with them and may hinder the local Labour Law of the host country However in some country mostly commonwealth they have strong Labour Laws that protects the interest of employees and it is the rights of the employee to join the union which law is supreme but if you are in a deveoping country like USA, some parts of UK like Germany Austria and in Australia labor law or union affiliates are reduced hence the need not to join union because of the workpattern in that country differs like part time or casual or flexi worker and in some instances the country have over qualified personeel that flood the market and increase economic status speaks for it selfs.So if your country have strong labour laws that protects the interest of the employee and the right for union membership then the contract will be contradictory and misleading to cite in the appointment letter (Corporatism theory) or (Tripartism)
Pita Tuiloma
Fiji
From Fiji
Dear All
Rightly the law in India makes it an unfair labour practice on the part of the employer
1. to encourage or discourage membership in any union ;
2. by discriminating against any employee by discharging or punishing an employee because he urged other employees to join or organise a union;
3.discharging or dismissing an employee for taking part in any strike not being a strike which is deemed to be illegal;
4.changing the seniority rating of employee because of union activities;
5.refusing to promote employees to higher posts on account of their trade union activities;
6.giving unmerited promotions to certain employees with a view to sow discord amongst the other employees to undermine the strength of their union and discharging office-bearers or active union members on account of their union activities.
The Law is well settled that it must be strictly construed as the consequences of the conclusion that an unfair labour practice has been committed by an employer or in certain instances by a trade union are severe.
With Regards
E-mail :
Off : 044-42620864, 044-55874684,
From India, Bangalore
Rightly the law in India makes it an unfair labour practice on the part of the employer
1. to encourage or discourage membership in any union ;
2. by discriminating against any employee by discharging or punishing an employee because he urged other employees to join or organise a union;
3.discharging or dismissing an employee for taking part in any strike not being a strike which is deemed to be illegal;
4.changing the seniority rating of employee because of union activities;
5.refusing to promote employees to higher posts on account of their trade union activities;
6.giving unmerited promotions to certain employees with a view to sow discord amongst the other employees to undermine the strength of their union and discharging office-bearers or active union members on account of their union activities.
The Law is well settled that it must be strictly construed as the consequences of the conclusion that an unfair labour practice has been committed by an employer or in certain instances by a trade union are severe.
With Regards
E-mail :
Off : 044-42620864, 044-55874684,
From India, Bangalore
Dear Uzma,
There is a lot of difference between an "unlawful activity" and "getting into or participating as a union member."
You can terminate services of an employee for his participation in any unlawful activities, as prescribed under the laws of the country, or international laws, but his becoming a member and participating in a lawfully formed union is not an unlawful activity.
If you are representing an organization within India, restricting any staff member to associate in any union or association would mean an unconstitutional act on the part of the organization, as you and your organization would be violating the fundamental rights of the employees, as citizens of India, as these fundamental rights are considered to be the base of the Constitution of India.
So, no doubt, you can include the clause of termination on account of unlawful activity, BUT NOT for becoming a member of a lawfully formed union or association. However, you can include the clause of termination on account of becoming a member or participating in an organization banned by the Government of India.
PS Dhingra
Vigilance & Transformation Management Consultant
Dhingra Group of management & Educational Consultants
New Delhi
From India, Delhi
There is a lot of difference between an "unlawful activity" and "getting into or participating as a union member."
You can terminate services of an employee for his participation in any unlawful activities, as prescribed under the laws of the country, or international laws, but his becoming a member and participating in a lawfully formed union is not an unlawful activity.
If you are representing an organization within India, restricting any staff member to associate in any union or association would mean an unconstitutional act on the part of the organization, as you and your organization would be violating the fundamental rights of the employees, as citizens of India, as these fundamental rights are considered to be the base of the Constitution of India.
So, no doubt, you can include the clause of termination on account of unlawful activity, BUT NOT for becoming a member of a lawfully formed union or association. However, you can include the clause of termination on account of becoming a member or participating in an organization banned by the Government of India.
PS Dhingra
Vigilance & Transformation Management Consultant
Dhingra Group of management & Educational Consultants
New Delhi
From India, Delhi
Hai friend
Such clause is unheard in the history of HR.
It amounts Unfair Labour Practice as per Section 2(ra) read with Schedule V, Part I, Clause 1, 4 of the Industrial Disputes Act of 1947 and such employer is liable for prosecution under section 25 (T) & 25(U) and punishable with imprisonment for a term of 6 months or fine of Rs. 1000/- or both.
Please refer SCHEDULE V OF ID ACT FOR A DETAILS.
Regards
From India, Hyderabad
Such clause is unheard in the history of HR.
It amounts Unfair Labour Practice as per Section 2(ra) read with Schedule V, Part I, Clause 1, 4 of the Industrial Disputes Act of 1947 and such employer is liable for prosecution under section 25 (T) & 25(U) and punishable with imprisonment for a term of 6 months or fine of Rs. 1000/- or both.
Please refer SCHEDULE V OF ID ACT FOR A DETAILS.
Regards
From India, Hyderabad
Dear All
Thank you all for the unanimous opinion; which was obvious; and shows the understanding and expertise in HR matters and maturity as HR professionals.
Such doubts amounting to 'blunders' need to be explained to the HR person concerned, strongly and precisely, driven like a peg, so as to remain in memory.
It is time our member Uzma responds to the postings.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Thank you all for the unanimous opinion; which was obvious; and shows the understanding and expertise in HR matters and maturity as HR professionals.
Such doubts amounting to 'blunders' need to be explained to the HR person concerned, strongly and precisely, driven like a peg, so as to remain in memory.
It is time our member Uzma responds to the postings.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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