----------------
"1.Legally no action can be taken as there are a whole lot of loop holes.
4.When such information is deliberately suppressed -the company should take some action for this breach .
5.Will be thankful if you can suggest some more ways to curb this problem"deliberate suppression of facts''
Legally ? Yes, every employer is armoured with their SO or Conduct and Discipline Rules to deal with indiscipline among their employees. If you amend your SO suitably there is every possibility to tackle the noncompliance appropriately. Such things can form part of your Performance appraisal criterion as well for granting increment".
From India, Bangalore
1077"1.Legally no action can be taken as there are a whole lot of loop holes.
4.When such information is deliberately suppressed -the company should take some action for this breach .
5.Will be thankful if you can suggest some more ways to curb this problem"deliberate suppression of facts''
Legally ? Yes, every employer is armoured with their SO or Conduct and Discipline Rules to deal with indiscipline among their employees. If you amend your SO suitably there is every possibility to tackle the noncompliance appropriately. Such things can form part of your Performance appraisal criterion as well for granting increment".
From India, Bangalore
Hi Smitha,
The employee marital status does not affect the image of the company, it is the personal problem of the employee and their legal problems also will not cause damage to the company's reputation.
As long as the employee is performing well he/she may retained, you can assess the performance by the appraisal method may monthly, quarterly, half yearly and annually, only performing candidates are retained.
From India, Bangalore
The employee marital status does not affect the image of the company, it is the personal problem of the employee and their legal problems also will not cause damage to the company's reputation.
As long as the employee is performing well he/she may retained, you can assess the performance by the appraisal method may monthly, quarterly, half yearly and annually, only performing candidates are retained.
From India, Bangalore
Thank you LOGINMIRACLELOGISTICS .
Yes,this is very do-able and these simple measures can actually control huge complications that can be very time -consuming to solve.
I appreciate your suggestion.
Furthermore , If a company is going to place their confidential work -related information in the hands of their employees , then it is not asking for too much -that the employees be honest about certain details .(The ones where the company can also get dragged in for no fault of theirs--like bigamy, cheating ,fraud, PF matters )
For Dinesh: You gave an example of the current PM's ---non-disclosure and then disclosure of his marriage.
1.He withheld the information - but did not give a false answer.
2.In case he had continued to follow this in other areas as well (non-disclosure...then disclose), I am sure all these will add up,and would not be taken very lightly-Even if we are a democracy.
Discrepencies are discrepencies -Whatever the area maybe.
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Yes,this is very do-able and these simple measures can actually control huge complications that can be very time -consuming to solve.
I appreciate your suggestion.
Furthermore , If a company is going to place their confidential work -related information in the hands of their employees , then it is not asking for too much -that the employees be honest about certain details .(The ones where the company can also get dragged in for no fault of theirs--like bigamy, cheating ,fraud, PF matters )
For Dinesh: You gave an example of the current PM's ---non-disclosure and then disclosure of his marriage.
1.He withheld the information - but did not give a false answer.
2.In case he had continued to follow this in other areas as well (non-disclosure...then disclose), I am sure all these will add up,and would not be taken very lightly-Even if we are a democracy.
Discrepencies are discrepencies -Whatever the area maybe.
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Dear Smita,
We had faced many cases beset with bigamy, deuterogamy,digamy ( in a couple of cases employees had more than one wife (one lived with 4 wives all in one and the same house together and on his demise all fighting in court). We had to attend diff.courts to show our records and answer barrage of questions from the claimants, advocates and judges. We were questioned by the civil judges as to why we didn't keep updated our records to show the (latest !) family particulars. In many occasions we were pulled up by the judges for not keeping the perfect record of legal spouse and their children supported with documents. These are disputed/litigations not only for F & F settlement of deceased but also for maintenance from living husbands who deserted them, dependent parents, unmarried/widowed sisters. We were issued injunctions in many cases. Our Labour Officers had to sit in unofficial panchayats to reach amicable mutual agreement among them to cut short legal process.There were a couple of cases still remain unsettled, husband(s) who was/were posted/sent/transferred to sites still not traceable. The legal wives running pillar to post to feed their children with no documents left with them to support their claims and official records drew blank as they were obtained before marriage but due to lapse of staff not kept updated. India is full of such cases. There is no bar as educated or uneducated, happens in many cases of innocent/ignorant, poor young girls from rural/urban background. I, initially never believed Pancha Pandavas of Mahabharat till these cases proved it. So a vigilant administrator especially HR should not bother about the privacy issues et al and keep their records in tact come what may. Let us err by doing but not by not doing which will ultimately help us to avoid embarrassments.
From India, Bangalore
We had faced many cases beset with bigamy, deuterogamy,digamy ( in a couple of cases employees had more than one wife (one lived with 4 wives all in one and the same house together and on his demise all fighting in court). We had to attend diff.courts to show our records and answer barrage of questions from the claimants, advocates and judges. We were questioned by the civil judges as to why we didn't keep updated our records to show the (latest !) family particulars. In many occasions we were pulled up by the judges for not keeping the perfect record of legal spouse and their children supported with documents. These are disputed/litigations not only for F & F settlement of deceased but also for maintenance from living husbands who deserted them, dependent parents, unmarried/widowed sisters. We were issued injunctions in many cases. Our Labour Officers had to sit in unofficial panchayats to reach amicable mutual agreement among them to cut short legal process.There were a couple of cases still remain unsettled, husband(s) who was/were posted/sent/transferred to sites still not traceable. The legal wives running pillar to post to feed their children with no documents left with them to support their claims and official records drew blank as they were obtained before marriage but due to lapse of staff not kept updated. India is full of such cases. There is no bar as educated or uneducated, happens in many cases of innocent/ignorant, poor young girls from rural/urban background. I, initially never believed Pancha Pandavas of Mahabharat till these cases proved it. So a vigilant administrator especially HR should not bother about the privacy issues et al and keep their records in tact come what may. Let us err by doing but not by not doing which will ultimately help us to avoid embarrassments.
From India, Bangalore
If I recollect the querist raised a question of morality or of a deliberate lie / non-disclosure. It did not concern the nomination which could be an offshoot of wrongful (not necessarily ilegal act)
the first question that arose in my mind is: how does it affect the company?
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
the first question that arose in my mind is: how does it affect the company?
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
Hello Member,
I believe Marriage is a personal matter of employees if he/she feels then he/she may not disclose to society including employer there may be some reason so directly we should not blame employee. HR is not against employee so here we need to discuss and understand the reason for doing this.
We should be more concern regarding his/her outcome at work place rather personal belongings but morally one may disclose it.
From India, Bhubaneswar
I believe Marriage is a personal matter of employees if he/she feels then he/she may not disclose to society including employer there may be some reason so directly we should not blame employee. HR is not against employee so here we need to discuss and understand the reason for doing this.
We should be more concern regarding his/her outcome at work place rather personal belongings but morally one may disclose it.
From India, Bhubaneswar
Yes, there could be much hassles in exceptional cases because of the wrong information furnished the employee. However, there could be no law which can authorise the Controlling Officer or the Official Superior to adopt an officious approach and micro manage the personal affairs of the employees in his charge. This is more true in respect of public servants because, it has been held repeatedly, they do not forfeit their Fundamental Rights by joining public service. It has been held by the Supreme Court in the case of Capt. Paul Anthony v. Union of India:
"On joining Govt. service, a person does not mortgage or barter away his basic rights as a human being, including his fundamental rights, in favour of the Govt. The Govt., only because it has the power to appoint does not become the master of the body and soul of the employee. The Govt. by providing job opportunities to its citizens only fulfils its obligations under the Constitution, including the Directive Principles of the State Policy. The employee, on taking up an employment only agrees to subject himself to the regulatory measures concerning his service. His association with the Government or any other employer, like Instrumentalities of the Govt. or Statutory or Autonomous Corporations etc., is regulated by the terms of contract of service or Service Rules made by the Central or the State Govt. under the Proviso to Article 309 of the Constitution or other Statutory Rules including Certified Standing Orders. The fundamental rights, including the Right to Life under Article 21 of the Constitution or the basic human rights are not surrendered by the employee."
From India, Kochi
"On joining Govt. service, a person does not mortgage or barter away his basic rights as a human being, including his fundamental rights, in favour of the Govt. The Govt., only because it has the power to appoint does not become the master of the body and soul of the employee. The Govt. by providing job opportunities to its citizens only fulfils its obligations under the Constitution, including the Directive Principles of the State Policy. The employee, on taking up an employment only agrees to subject himself to the regulatory measures concerning his service. His association with the Government or any other employer, like Instrumentalities of the Govt. or Statutory or Autonomous Corporations etc., is regulated by the terms of contract of service or Service Rules made by the Central or the State Govt. under the Proviso to Article 309 of the Constitution or other Statutory Rules including Certified Standing Orders. The fundamental rights, including the Right to Life under Article 21 of the Constitution or the basic human rights are not surrendered by the employee."
From India, Kochi
Dear Members,
Abedeen:Yes,there is a very fine line here.
1.We have different areas of life that overlap and as 'Loginmiracelogistics' told us that although the company has nothing to do with an employees personal life-Yet whenevr a problem arises the company is dragged in -At that point 'Nobody' -Not the court nor the law buys the logic that it is personal .
2.As I mentioned that different areas overlap. As in this particular case .The employee got married claiming to be unmarried and single, and the only place the lady could find out his previous records was the company.(unfortunately there is no portal in our country to provide this information)
3.The marriage dint last and much later the girl came to know his previous history.
4.I understand this is personal but the girl claims because the records were clean ,she married him.
5.Where does that leave us?Do we say we don't care or That's her problem she beleived our records and took a decision.
6.Legally nothing can be done,but it leaves a very bitter taste .
7.If such people are left scotfree and not questioned ,we are encouraging this behaviour.(The court and law have too many loop holes) .
Pvenu1953: Technically you are right.Unfortunately such 'exceptional cases' are on the rise.Most of the people men/women keep quiet about it , as they are ashamed to admit they have been duped.
History has shown ,like in 'sati pratha' the court rulings dint stop it.The awareness of public stopped it.
I appreciate all the views ,it has brought out a lot of different aspects and eventually the issue is very subjective .
regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Abedeen:Yes,there is a very fine line here.
1.We have different areas of life that overlap and as 'Loginmiracelogistics' told us that although the company has nothing to do with an employees personal life-Yet whenevr a problem arises the company is dragged in -At that point 'Nobody' -Not the court nor the law buys the logic that it is personal .
2.As I mentioned that different areas overlap. As in this particular case .The employee got married claiming to be unmarried and single, and the only place the lady could find out his previous records was the company.(unfortunately there is no portal in our country to provide this information)
3.The marriage dint last and much later the girl came to know his previous history.
4.I understand this is personal but the girl claims because the records were clean ,she married him.
5.Where does that leave us?Do we say we don't care or That's her problem she beleived our records and took a decision.
6.Legally nothing can be done,but it leaves a very bitter taste .
7.If such people are left scotfree and not questioned ,we are encouraging this behaviour.(The court and law have too many loop holes) .
Pvenu1953: Technically you are right.Unfortunately such 'exceptional cases' are on the rise.Most of the people men/women keep quiet about it , as they are ashamed to admit they have been duped.
History has shown ,like in 'sati pratha' the court rulings dint stop it.The awareness of public stopped it.
I appreciate all the views ,it has brought out a lot of different aspects and eventually the issue is very subjective .
regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Dear all,
Of course, rationalist advocate 'marriage' is one's personal affair, agreed but, but informing the same to the office/employer is not personal but mandatory official compliance for various obvious reasons. It is the prerogative of the admin. and if anybody not willing to reveal he/she shall have no place in the estt.
From India, Bangalore
Of course, rationalist advocate 'marriage' is one's personal affair, agreed but, but informing the same to the office/employer is not personal but mandatory official compliance for various obvious reasons. It is the prerogative of the admin. and if anybody not willing to reveal he/she shall have no place in the estt.
From India, Bangalore
is there no lapse on the part of the company for having shared employee's personal details with an outsider (that lady who believed these records) without the permission of the employee himself? - What is disclosed to the company is in good confidence.
Of course what has happened with the lady is very very unfortunate.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
Of course what has happened with the lady is very very unfortunate.
A S Bhat
From India, Pune
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