In highly creative fields like advertising, core R&D etc, it well known that certain freedoms and unconventional work arrangements are allowed, but allowing a rather bohemian style in normal office working would be at the cost of discipline. As pointed out by Dinesh Sir, the hot stove Rule proposed by Douglas Murray McGregor in the early 60's (McGregor was an influential personality in the management world, well known for his book, The Human Side of Enterprise (published in 1960) is very much relevant. If Marketing Manager comes and goes at whim, her subordinates also would follow the same rule and soon there would be no end. The anguish of Divya is understandable and is justified.
From India, Mumbai
1534From India, Mumbai
Senior s have said correctly .But on safer side if you had communicated in writing keep note of it ,in case not keep some record of it .(Both parties Marketing Manager & Employer) .It may happen due to some poor show of Marketing, Management may change decision ,that time this will help you
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
It is good to be flexible in timings so long as the work is done and within the time limits. Gone are the days when some of the corporate used to act like school and discipline was paramount than work being done. If the employee is good at work and the reporting manager does not seem to have issues at the employee being consistently late to work but still does her job, just leave it at that. It should not become a prestige issue between the employee concerned and the HR. HR department can only thrive for the company when it understands and goes with the tide and not just rules alone.
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Nami, This is a different thread on timings and flexibility of employees. Do not divert the forum, post it separately.
From India, Hyderabad
From India, Hyderabad
A whole set of tech-savvy new generation grown up in socio-economic environment that is vastly different from that of 1950s to 1970s called milliniels have come to make a significant portion of the workforce in modern work places.They are innovative,aspirational, hard working,freedom loving and result oriented. They feel stifled by control and heirarchy. They like flat offices and they will be in direct communication with their bosses.Though they come late to office, probably they might be working at home on their laptaps for two hours before reaching office.They are changing the paradigms of work culture and the managements after incurring the high cost of acquiring those talents, may not be willing to loose them. So the traditional norms of punctuality and attendance are slowly replaced by flexi hours of working to woo them more so in functions like IT, telecommunications, marketing, branding and designing etc.
However punctuality and attendance is still an essential virtue in manufacturing and customer driven business transactions like banking, insurance and retail stores etc.
The HR needs to accordingly adapt itself to the changing paradigms of work culture which is leaning more towards performance driven than punctuality driven in creative avocations.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Adviser
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
However punctuality and attendance is still an essential virtue in manufacturing and customer driven business transactions like banking, insurance and retail stores etc.
The HR needs to accordingly adapt itself to the changing paradigms of work culture which is leaning more towards performance driven than punctuality driven in creative avocations.
B.Saikumar
HR & Labour Relations Adviser
Navi Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Hi there,
I totally have different view on the "Marketing Manager" coming late. In most companies, they don't even have timings and will be given flexible timings and also timings are not strictly followed.
As the ultimate goal is get business for companies, many times visit outside client directly or come to office and go from there on, so they don't punch out. Morever, most companies, are fine with this as long as his/her reporting boss is fine with it.
I would have agreed, if the accounts department or finance department does not come in time. These are times when certain flexibility is also given to manager's and are asked for work for say set standard 8 hours of time, from the time of their reporting.
Let us not forget that, as long as they get the business, that is what sustains the company going ,else the very survival of company is at stake. that flexibility is considered in most companies, especially to the HOD or Employee at Manager level.
What is HR position , if the employee comes in time and goes in time, but not able to generate business. Kindly note, I am in HR as well and speaking from that perspective.
thanks
From India, Visakhapatnam
I totally have different view on the "Marketing Manager" coming late. In most companies, they don't even have timings and will be given flexible timings and also timings are not strictly followed.
As the ultimate goal is get business for companies, many times visit outside client directly or come to office and go from there on, so they don't punch out. Morever, most companies, are fine with this as long as his/her reporting boss is fine with it.
I would have agreed, if the accounts department or finance department does not come in time. These are times when certain flexibility is also given to manager's and are asked for work for say set standard 8 hours of time, from the time of their reporting.
Let us not forget that, as long as they get the business, that is what sustains the company going ,else the very survival of company is at stake. that flexibility is considered in most companies, especially to the HOD or Employee at Manager level.
What is HR position , if the employee comes in time and goes in time, but not able to generate business. Kindly note, I am in HR as well and speaking from that perspective.
thanks
From India, Visakhapatnam
Thank you Mr.Dinesh Divekarthanks for ur smart reply and like ur reply."Why you tried shooting while keeping gun on your shoulder? Smart HRs always shoot by keeping gun on the seniors shoulder!".Now I know the "SMART HR " this is very helpful to me.And thank you divya I'm also troubled the same issue.Thanks a lot.
From India, Warangal
From India, Warangal
Mr. Dinesh and Mr. Sai Kumar provided proper feedback.
Being a HR, we always try to make certain discipline in the organisation, but some case it's also difficult due to various reasons and condition. Here, your manager is looking her requirements for business, so they are not concerning and explained to you that they are less concern, but at the same time there might be chances if the case for other employee. Here only you should understand your management meaning. Now, you should start to collect each cases of employees and if anyone giving her example for late coming, which can be documented and can be presented in future if the issues comes to you from management.
From India, Ahmadabad
Being a HR, we always try to make certain discipline in the organisation, but some case it's also difficult due to various reasons and condition. Here, your manager is looking her requirements for business, so they are not concerning and explained to you that they are less concern, but at the same time there might be chances if the case for other employee. Here only you should understand your management meaning. Now, you should start to collect each cases of employees and if anyone giving her example for late coming, which can be documented and can be presented in future if the issues comes to you from management.
From India, Ahmadabad
Dear Vrgajjar,
Discipline should be viewed as a condition within an organisation whereby Employees know what is expected of them in terms of the organisation’s rules, Standards and policies and what the consequences are of infractions.· —Rue & Byars, 1996
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISCIPLINE?
The immediate supervisor is responsible for maintaining discipline and morale among employees he/she supervises and for initiating appropriate disciplinary action where there is adequate reason The line supervisor is mainly responsible for the enforcement of company rules. It is a very important responsibility requiring impartiality, good judgment, and moral courage. Disciplinary action should, therefore, be taken by the immediate line supervisor. But, to avoid embarrassments and violation of company policies/rules as well as of union agreements/laws of the nation, before taking disciplinary action involving warning letters, suspensions or dismissals, he must first mandatorily consult in writing with his superior and the personnel manager.
HR is expected to be knowledgeable with laws/policies/procedure/natural justice etc and competent to advice line of action and steps to achieve aim of disciplinary actions.
Investigations, hearings, and specific procedures may be involved in serious disciplinary cases. It must be remembered that disciplinary action is a tool, not a weapon of supervision.
So in the instant case, the superior of the late coming manager needs to take considered view on the subject.
HR can step in advisory capacity if asked or it is noticed that the disease of late coming is spreading by example.
HR here is to playing a balancing role of advisory nature and avoid getting tinto a situation where employee quits and HR gets blame for making a result oreinted employee quit.
From India, Pune
Discipline should be viewed as a condition within an organisation whereby Employees know what is expected of them in terms of the organisation’s rules, Standards and policies and what the consequences are of infractions.· —Rue & Byars, 1996
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISCIPLINE?
The immediate supervisor is responsible for maintaining discipline and morale among employees he/she supervises and for initiating appropriate disciplinary action where there is adequate reason The line supervisor is mainly responsible for the enforcement of company rules. It is a very important responsibility requiring impartiality, good judgment, and moral courage. Disciplinary action should, therefore, be taken by the immediate line supervisor. But, to avoid embarrassments and violation of company policies/rules as well as of union agreements/laws of the nation, before taking disciplinary action involving warning letters, suspensions or dismissals, he must first mandatorily consult in writing with his superior and the personnel manager.
HR is expected to be knowledgeable with laws/policies/procedure/natural justice etc and competent to advice line of action and steps to achieve aim of disciplinary actions.
Investigations, hearings, and specific procedures may be involved in serious disciplinary cases. It must be remembered that disciplinary action is a tool, not a weapon of supervision.
So in the instant case, the superior of the late coming manager needs to take considered view on the subject.
HR can step in advisory capacity if asked or it is noticed that the disease of late coming is spreading by example.
HR here is to playing a balancing role of advisory nature and avoid getting tinto a situation where employee quits and HR gets blame for making a result oreinted employee quit.
From India, Pune
Community Support and Knowledge-base on business, career and organisational prospects and issues - Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query, download formats and be part of a fostered community of professionals.
Employee Appraisal Form new.doc