Dear Mr. Sandy
Thanks for your inputs into the thread and for providing links of the website...
I am fully agree with the contents in the first link provided by you; ie. Current that kills, not the voltage...
But in the second link following statement is what confusing me... Can you give more clarifications to the below sentence from the website: Can this 15mA kill a person, if so on what condition?
The current through the heart is what kills you. It only takes a few milliamps to disrupt the heartbeat. (About 15mA for men and 10mA for women, though this varies from person to person.)
From India
713Thanks for your inputs into the thread and for providing links of the website...
I am fully agree with the contents in the first link provided by you; ie. Current that kills, not the voltage...
But in the second link following statement is what confusing me... Can you give more clarifications to the below sentence from the website: Can this 15mA kill a person, if so on what condition?
The current through the heart is what kills you. It only takes a few milliamps to disrupt the heartbeat. (About 15mA for men and 10mA for women, though this varies from person to person.)
From India
Dear Mr. Koshi
Thanks a lot for your reply to the thread and sorry for being late in giving reply... I do read a lot on the topic these days and involved in discussions with many people and in this forum also...
I have ask the questions which you raised to the Experts in the field of Electrical and got the following reply... Request you to go through the same and come up with your views:
1. While voltage ( potential difference) is required for flow of current, It is the current that kills.
For eg: For the same voltage if a person with a dry body and another with a wet body, touches the same, the wet body man will get more shock than dry. Because
Current= Voltage/ resistance
If the resistance is high the current is low . When the current is high it burns the nerves thereby inducing death.
Another example to quote for more simply understanding:
Consider a Tank full of water which is Connected to a Pipe. The Storred Water inside tank is potential voltage and the water come out through the pipe when we turns the nobe "ON" is current... Ie. Potential difference taken place to flow the current... This current only dangerous, not the voltage...
2. when a bird sits or a man hangs on a wire the Potential difference is between two legs/ hands which is very small or even zero and hence the current is very small.
But if the mans leg touch the ground/Post then the potential difference is line voltage and the ground. Current in this is very high which can be disastrous.
3. in the case of 24V I have not heard of Ventricullar Fibrillation. It could happen to get a jolt but not serious.
When comes to 24V he was also having your same opinion...
Looking forward to hear from you to come to a great conclusion on this discussion...
From India
Thanks a lot for your reply to the thread and sorry for being late in giving reply... I do read a lot on the topic these days and involved in discussions with many people and in this forum also...
I have ask the questions which you raised to the Experts in the field of Electrical and got the following reply... Request you to go through the same and come up with your views:
1. While voltage ( potential difference) is required for flow of current, It is the current that kills.
For eg: For the same voltage if a person with a dry body and another with a wet body, touches the same, the wet body man will get more shock than dry. Because
Current= Voltage/ resistance
If the resistance is high the current is low . When the current is high it burns the nerves thereby inducing death.
Another example to quote for more simply understanding:
Consider a Tank full of water which is Connected to a Pipe. The Storred Water inside tank is potential voltage and the water come out through the pipe when we turns the nobe "ON" is current... Ie. Potential difference taken place to flow the current... This current only dangerous, not the voltage...
2. when a bird sits or a man hangs on a wire the Potential difference is between two legs/ hands which is very small or even zero and hence the current is very small.
But if the mans leg touch the ground/Post then the potential difference is line voltage and the ground. Current in this is very high which can be disastrous.
3. in the case of 24V I have not heard of Ventricullar Fibrillation. It could happen to get a jolt but not serious.
When comes to 24V he was also having your same opinion...
Looking forward to hear from you to come to a great conclusion on this discussion...
From India
Dear Sir
Thanks for your participation into the thread... You have given an informative link which is showing the result of various authors study... This seems authentic data and according to this website 24 V can't kill a person or induce ventricular fibrillation...
"The damage caused by electric shock depends on the current flowing through the body -- 1 mA can be felt; 5 mA is painful. Above 15 mA, a person loses muscle control, and 70 mA can be fatal."
During our earlier discussion in this site itself and we come to a conclusion that "It is estimated that 50 ma is sufficient to cause Ventricular fibrillation".
Looking forward to hear from you more and keep on participate and share your expertise with us...
From India
Thanks for your participation into the thread... You have given an informative link which is showing the result of various authors study... This seems authentic data and according to this website 24 V can't kill a person or induce ventricular fibrillation...
"The damage caused by electric shock depends on the current flowing through the body -- 1 mA can be felt; 5 mA is painful. Above 15 mA, a person loses muscle control, and 70 mA can be fatal."
During our earlier discussion in this site itself and we come to a conclusion that "It is estimated that 50 ma is sufficient to cause Ventricular fibrillation".
Looking forward to hear from you more and keep on participate and share your expertise with us...
From India
Dear Mr. BS Gopala krishna
Thanks for your input into the thread...
I do agree on your statement "QUANTITY OF CURRENT FLOW DETERMINES THE SEVERITY of shock"...
According to this link:Which is kill the human voltage or current
Actually, voltage is the electric potential, or potential energy for each electron, not potential energy. Current is rate at which the electrons flow. In order to see what effect it would have on a person, think of it like this: if you have high current and low voltage, then the electrons would not have that much energy, but there would be a lot of them flowing into your body because the current is high. But, if the voltage is high and the current is low, then the electrons would carry more energy, but there would not be many of them flowing into your body because the current is low. Looking at it this way, current and voltage should be equally deadly, but in real life current is more life-threatening. This is because your heart uses electrical impulses to control how fast your heart beats and if you get a few high voltage electrons, it won't really do much to your heart beat, but getting a lot of them at low voltages would.
Hope to get your comments to have a common conclusion to this topic...
From India
Thanks for your input into the thread...
I do agree on your statement "QUANTITY OF CURRENT FLOW DETERMINES THE SEVERITY of shock"...
According to this link:Which is kill the human voltage or current
Actually, voltage is the electric potential, or potential energy for each electron, not potential energy. Current is rate at which the electrons flow. In order to see what effect it would have on a person, think of it like this: if you have high current and low voltage, then the electrons would not have that much energy, but there would be a lot of them flowing into your body because the current is high. But, if the voltage is high and the current is low, then the electrons would carry more energy, but there would not be many of them flowing into your body because the current is low. Looking at it this way, current and voltage should be equally deadly, but in real life current is more life-threatening. This is because your heart uses electrical impulses to control how fast your heart beats and if you get a few high voltage electrons, it won't really do much to your heart beat, but getting a lot of them at low voltages would.
Hope to get your comments to have a common conclusion to this topic...
From India
Dear Sir
Thanks for providing a nice presentation on Electrical Safety...
Can you please give clarifications to the below two points in the presentation:
AC reverse polarity is not hazardous. How?
It takes high voltage to kill; 120 volts is not dangerous. Why?
Taking I = V/R
And if R = 1000 Ohm = 1 Kilo Ohm, consider wet condition with least resistance...
I = 120/1 = 120 mA
This 120 mA is enough to cause Ventricular Fibrillation causing to death... In America I think 120 V supply is existing and from there also cases of electrocution coming out... Hence I think any voltage which is more than 30 Volt is dangerous to human being as this can produce a current of 30mA which is dangerous to human life...
Let me know your comments on the above...
From India
Thanks for providing a nice presentation on Electrical Safety...
Can you please give clarifications to the below two points in the presentation:
AC reverse polarity is not hazardous. How?
It takes high voltage to kill; 120 volts is not dangerous. Why?
Taking I = V/R
And if R = 1000 Ohm = 1 Kilo Ohm, consider wet condition with least resistance...
I = 120/1 = 120 mA
This 120 mA is enough to cause Ventricular Fibrillation causing to death... In America I think 120 V supply is existing and from there also cases of electrocution coming out... Hence I think any voltage which is more than 30 Volt is dangerous to human being as this can produce a current of 30mA which is dangerous to human life...
Let me know your comments on the above...
From India
Dear Mr. Bhaskar
Thanks for your participation into the thread and raising concerns to make the discussions more interesting... Also appreciating your interest to know more things...
I would like to give my comments as below on the raised concern to you:
1. ELCB with rating 30mA will trip below 30mA current always. Will not allow to flow current more than 30mA...
2. Another factor is the time taken for the tripping... It is between 0.1 - 0.2 Sec, also can be adjust the time setting... So for this much small duration if a current below 30mA passes through a human body only tingling sensation can come....
3. If a current of 20-30ma flow through human body "Muscle contraction can cause respiratory paralysis"... It is also dangerous but retrievable and not causing death... This is what I read and learn from various discussions...
Awaiting to hear your views...
From India
Thanks for your participation into the thread and raising concerns to make the discussions more interesting... Also appreciating your interest to know more things...
I would like to give my comments as below on the raised concern to you:
1. ELCB with rating 30mA will trip below 30mA current always. Will not allow to flow current more than 30mA...
2. Another factor is the time taken for the tripping... It is between 0.1 - 0.2 Sec, also can be adjust the time setting... So for this much small duration if a current below 30mA passes through a human body only tingling sensation can come....
3. If a current of 20-30ma flow through human body "Muscle contraction can cause respiratory paralysis"... It is also dangerous but retrievable and not causing death... This is what I read and learn from various discussions...
Awaiting to hear your views...
From India
Dear All
Looking to have a great conclusion to the discussion by bringing clarrity to the below point:
1. Whether 24 V can kill a person or not?
In some of the websites and in one book which I read it is written that "Any current over 8mA is considered potentially dangerous depending on the path the current takes, the amount exposed to the shock, and the physical condition of the person receiving the shock."... If the resistance if 1000 Ohm or belw even current of 24 V can create more 8mA...
Looking forward to have the participation of senior members... Thanks in advance...
From India
Looking to have a great conclusion to the discussion by bringing clarrity to the below point:
1. Whether 24 V can kill a person or not?
In some of the websites and in one book which I read it is written that "Any current over 8mA is considered potentially dangerous depending on the path the current takes, the amount exposed to the shock, and the physical condition of the person receiving the shock."... If the resistance if 1000 Ohm or belw even current of 24 V can create more 8mA...
Looking forward to have the participation of senior members... Thanks in advance...
From India
Dear Dipil,
First of all very sorry for late reply. Actually i was very confused on this topic am not sure about my answer that's why i am not put any comments on this thread.
yesterday i had discussed with one of my friend basically he is a electrical engg he explained simply and given that attached document and link to me.So now i am 100% sure about my answer dipil.
Your right current kills the man/Women not VOLTAGE/////
Mr.Sandy,Mr.Joshi,Mr.Ps dhingara, Mr.Gopal Krishna, mr.Sudhir & Mr.Bhaskar.
Thanks for your inputs on this thread.
Dear Dipil,
Here is the link Difference Between Current and Voltage | Difference Between | Current vs Voltage
I don't have time to go through your previous posts will get you as soon as possible. . .
Keep on touch. . .
From United States, Fpo
First of all very sorry for late reply. Actually i was very confused on this topic am not sure about my answer that's why i am not put any comments on this thread.
yesterday i had discussed with one of my friend basically he is a electrical engg he explained simply and given that attached document and link to me.So now i am 100% sure about my answer dipil.
Your right current kills the man/Women not VOLTAGE/////
Mr.Sandy,Mr.Joshi,Mr.Ps dhingara, Mr.Gopal Krishna, mr.Sudhir & Mr.Bhaskar.
Thanks for your inputs on this thread.
Dear Dipil,
Here is the link Difference Between Current and Voltage | Difference Between | Current vs Voltage
I don't have time to go through your previous posts will get you as soon as possible. . .
Keep on touch. . .
From United States, Fpo
Dear all,
The 30 ma current causes breathing difficulty & does not cause a fatality.
Time taken to trip is also few milli seconds.Hence A 30 ma sensitivity ELCB will save lives in case of Electric shock.
BS Gopala krishna
BE , Electrical, DIP In Ind Safety (CLI)
,9731398860
EHS consultant , Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
The 30 ma current causes breathing difficulty & does not cause a fatality.
Time taken to trip is also few milli seconds.Hence A 30 ma sensitivity ELCB will save lives in case of Electric shock.
BS Gopala krishna
BE , Electrical, DIP In Ind Safety (CLI)
,9731398860
EHS consultant , Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear friends,
Electricity on human body is like toxic chemicals entering the body. We call it dose. The minimum amount to cause the damage.
Consider sleeping pills and its dose.
You take sleeping pills one a day. It helps you to fall asleep. You get some effect.
Same way with small amount of current 10 ma 20 ma or 30 ma. There is sensation, shock etc. of different degrees depending up on various factors like physique, male or female, humidity and so on.
Take a dozen sleeping pills at a time. The fellow dies. Same way too much of current at a time - it kills -50 to 100 ma depending upon individuals and circumstances.
Either you put all the twelve tablets in your mouth at a time or one after the other as the dose is reached at a particular time the man dies. Time is important.
Same with voltage.
Small voltage it takes a little more time for the amount of current to enter the body if the body is still in contact with the circuit.
With a little higher voltage the amount of current entering the body at a time is higher and sufficient to kill.
With too much of voltage the amount of current is too huge - it burns. Death is from burns and not from ventricular fibrillation.
Never believe low voltage. The surge is dangerous. Surge voltage is 1000 volts in a 230 volts tube light system that causes to light up. It is so simple.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
Electricity on human body is like toxic chemicals entering the body. We call it dose. The minimum amount to cause the damage.
Consider sleeping pills and its dose.
You take sleeping pills one a day. It helps you to fall asleep. You get some effect.
Same way with small amount of current 10 ma 20 ma or 30 ma. There is sensation, shock etc. of different degrees depending up on various factors like physique, male or female, humidity and so on.
Take a dozen sleeping pills at a time. The fellow dies. Same way too much of current at a time - it kills -50 to 100 ma depending upon individuals and circumstances.
Either you put all the twelve tablets in your mouth at a time or one after the other as the dose is reached at a particular time the man dies. Time is important.
Same with voltage.
Small voltage it takes a little more time for the amount of current to enter the body if the body is still in contact with the circuit.
With a little higher voltage the amount of current entering the body at a time is higher and sufficient to kill.
With too much of voltage the amount of current is too huge - it burns. Death is from burns and not from ventricular fibrillation.
Never believe low voltage. The surge is dangerous. Surge voltage is 1000 volts in a 230 volts tube light system that causes to light up. It is so simple.
Regards,
Kesava Pillai
From India, Kollam
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