My dear respected honorable seniors,
I would like to put up a case before you. In our company I am working as HR and we have only 11 employees out of which 2 employees are ladies with small child. one lady always leaves office at correct leaving time, even though her house is just 2 kms away from office and almost comes late daily. Being in metro city, many employees live far but come before office hours, but this lady inspite of living near comes 5-10 min late. IN our office we have rule for late marking for deducting leaves, if there are more than three late markings. Also most of time they are on phone , personal calls wasting precious office time. Our company is start up and if in initial stages good input and hardwork is not put then ultimately the company will be closed down. Only some employees realize this and are working hard.
I told our office VP that she came late three times so we need to deduct her leaves but he told not to do so, as she is ladies? now wt hell is this? I really dont understand. I think in most companies you will be treating male female on par, we also treat, that lady gets the same salary as her male counterpart, same benefits they why this additional relaxation to her. I am of view that rule is rule, be it female or male, and if anyone cant follow it action should be taken and they should be issue memo, warning for late comming.
Now being a start up company employees are working hard staying almost half - 1 hr after office hours also. I can sense (sixth sense) that these hardworking employees (all males) who are also newly joined (since this is start up) are getting a feeling that when this lady is not taking serious the job why should we work hard,,, which is very common because we all are human beings, now i feel either the lady should be done loss of pay or given warning. Because its spoiling the work environment and creating ego clashes between employees. Our office time is 05:30 and exactly at 05:30-05:32 she leaves office, when other employees see this they feel discouraged to do their work. Also she has not been given any work.
Our VP also old person, having old thoughts. but i feel in long run these ego clashes between employees will never help the company to grow this is my main concern.
As other employees are technical and senior to me i cant tell them anything, even they know this, but no solution to this problem. ITs like in 11 employees itself there are groups of 2-3 employees in their own world, not aware of other groups.. etc.. i feel when all 11 unite and work then only company will progress..
From India, Madras
113I would like to put up a case before you. In our company I am working as HR and we have only 11 employees out of which 2 employees are ladies with small child. one lady always leaves office at correct leaving time, even though her house is just 2 kms away from office and almost comes late daily. Being in metro city, many employees live far but come before office hours, but this lady inspite of living near comes 5-10 min late. IN our office we have rule for late marking for deducting leaves, if there are more than three late markings. Also most of time they are on phone , personal calls wasting precious office time. Our company is start up and if in initial stages good input and hardwork is not put then ultimately the company will be closed down. Only some employees realize this and are working hard.
I told our office VP that she came late three times so we need to deduct her leaves but he told not to do so, as she is ladies? now wt hell is this? I really dont understand. I think in most companies you will be treating male female on par, we also treat, that lady gets the same salary as her male counterpart, same benefits they why this additional relaxation to her. I am of view that rule is rule, be it female or male, and if anyone cant follow it action should be taken and they should be issue memo, warning for late comming.
Now being a start up company employees are working hard staying almost half - 1 hr after office hours also. I can sense (sixth sense) that these hardworking employees (all males) who are also newly joined (since this is start up) are getting a feeling that when this lady is not taking serious the job why should we work hard,,, which is very common because we all are human beings, now i feel either the lady should be done loss of pay or given warning. Because its spoiling the work environment and creating ego clashes between employees. Our office time is 05:30 and exactly at 05:30-05:32 she leaves office, when other employees see this they feel discouraged to do their work. Also she has not been given any work.
Our VP also old person, having old thoughts. but i feel in long run these ego clashes between employees will never help the company to grow this is my main concern.
As other employees are technical and senior to me i cant tell them anything, even they know this, but no solution to this problem. ITs like in 11 employees itself there are groups of 2-3 employees in their own world, not aware of other groups.. etc.. i feel when all 11 unite and work then only company will progress..
From India, Madras
First and foremost thing being in small team you are not able to gel with them.
Dont worry whether she is not staying late r coming to office late see whether the task assissigned to her is done in 8 hrs duration or not.
If her performance is not up to the mark talk to her about the vision of the company and her service is very much required by the company.
Everyone has personal life so dont get it to that topic and make things complicated.
From India, Coimbatore
Dont worry whether she is not staying late r coming to office late see whether the task assissigned to her is done in 8 hrs duration or not.
If her performance is not up to the mark talk to her about the vision of the company and her service is very much required by the company.
Everyone has personal life so dont get it to that topic and make things complicated.
From India, Coimbatore
Dear Ravi,
This is interesting issue that you have put up.
I also agree with what Asrar has said. If the lady is able to accomplish the task assigned well during the office hour, then being late or leaving exactly on time should be OK. That's the reason we really emphasize on felxi timing these days. You speak to her and find out the reason why she is late most of the time. If being late is indispensible from her side due to unavoidable family reasons, then see how that can be tackled. The company should not lose a trained asset because of this reason.
Then, you as an HR have to play a critical role. Don't see her as a demotivating factor rather motivate yourself and put yourself as a model for the other male colleagues by focussing on your work. Appreciate your friends for staying late and coming on time. See the change. All the Best!!!
Better if you write the status of the other female colleague too.
Binapani
From India, Delhi
This is interesting issue that you have put up.
I also agree with what Asrar has said. If the lady is able to accomplish the task assigned well during the office hour, then being late or leaving exactly on time should be OK. That's the reason we really emphasize on felxi timing these days. You speak to her and find out the reason why she is late most of the time. If being late is indispensible from her side due to unavoidable family reasons, then see how that can be tackled. The company should not lose a trained asset because of this reason.
Then, you as an HR have to play a critical role. Don't see her as a demotivating factor rather motivate yourself and put yourself as a model for the other male colleagues by focussing on your work. Appreciate your friends for staying late and coming on time. See the change. All the Best!!!
Better if you write the status of the other female colleague too.
Binapani
From India, Delhi
Dear Ravi,
Others have given you some solutions, so let me explain what the situation could be based on my experience. It's possible that the lady has to arrange for the child to be looked after (say by a child minder, who does not open on time); and also having to pick up the child on time. I also used to leave work on the dot to pick our children up, as my wife also worked but did not finish an hour after I did.
Like others have said, the question is does she finish work allotted to her on time and whether she is a good worker. You have not said what her nature of work is. Once my boss told me "You may not break the RULES but you can bend them". You have mentioned there are two ladies; do they do the same work?
It's possible that all the males are still young and have no children, or have someone looking after their kids. The lady may not have anyone to help. Without fully knowing her background it's difficult to pass a verdict. I know that the workplace is not a charity, but it can be humane.
I have known workers that have stayed behind but who produced less than a full-day's work when compared to someone that came late and went early. The workers were spending more time gossipping and on breaks. One of the workers had said it's better to be work than at home where (s)he got more headache from the spouse.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
Others have given you some solutions, so let me explain what the situation could be based on my experience. It's possible that the lady has to arrange for the child to be looked after (say by a child minder, who does not open on time); and also having to pick up the child on time. I also used to leave work on the dot to pick our children up, as my wife also worked but did not finish an hour after I did.
Like others have said, the question is does she finish work allotted to her on time and whether she is a good worker. You have not said what her nature of work is. Once my boss told me "You may not break the RULES but you can bend them". You have mentioned there are two ladies; do they do the same work?
It's possible that all the males are still young and have no children, or have someone looking after their kids. The lady may not have anyone to help. Without fully knowing her background it's difficult to pass a verdict. I know that the workplace is not a charity, but it can be humane.
I have known workers that have stayed behind but who produced less than a full-day's work when compared to someone that came late and went early. The workers were spending more time gossipping and on breaks. One of the workers had said it's better to be work than at home where (s)he got more headache from the spouse.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
Dear ALL
Thank you very much for your inputs we have a strict time for in and late marking is treated as indiscipline might sound weird but this is our culture as we are not into IT, and all funda...
Here we dont have exact KRA defined as our VP is too busy to daily ask that lady whether she does her work or not, from my experience i can make out, whether she has work or not she leaves, even if there is imp work she leaves dot 05.30 which is not good. Since my VP is very busy he is not getting time but other employees who on their work are working hard for development of company feel depressed.
About the other she is sincere in work and stays late if required she too has kid, but she gives importance to work,
From India, Madras
Thank you very much for your inputs we have a strict time for in and late marking is treated as indiscipline might sound weird but this is our culture as we are not into IT, and all funda...
Here we dont have exact KRA defined as our VP is too busy to daily ask that lady whether she does her work or not, from my experience i can make out, whether she has work or not she leaves, even if there is imp work she leaves dot 05.30 which is not good. Since my VP is very busy he is not getting time but other employees who on their work are working hard for development of company feel depressed.
About the other she is sincere in work and stays late if required she too has kid, but she gives importance to work,
From India, Madras
Dear Ravi
I agree with Simhan's opinion, which reflects his wisdom, experience and maturity.
You seem to be a young man; very enthusiastic to apply the rules in a typical blind-folded manner implying no discrimination and the principles of "equality". In fact everyone tends to be like you in their initial years.
It is only with experience that one learns to "apply" the rules. While APPLYING rules one should take care of the principles of "positive" discrimination and view the whole thing in totality.
Giving due considerations on a case by case basis is also an accepted way of dispensing justice. Also, you might have heard of "exemplary punishment" !! If EQUALITY is everything; then why is a person "punished" to a GREATER EXTENT for the same infringement where another person would get a lesser punishment ??
Think over these issues too.
Justice and equality does not mean painting everyone with the same brush or closing one's eyes. There are "extenuating" circumstances; past records/performance; intentions and inabilities etc that have to be taken into consideration.
Therefore, there is a difference if a new joinee or a bachelor comes late everyday by 10 minutes and a married lady with small children, who has given years of continuous productive service, comes to office late by 10 minutes.
If rules are to be APPLIED BLINDLY, there is no need of qualified professionals to do so; even an illiterate cow-herd would suffice.
Rules are made to achieve certain PRIME objectives such as efficiency, productivity, safety etc. and not meant to be a STICK in the hands of HR persons to inflict "injury" on others. Such thinkings, as you have expressed, does not serve any useful purpose nor endears the HR to the employees; which is a must if you are looking for 'engaged', motivated, high-performing employees.
Please ignore my words, wherever you find them harsh; and just consider the essence of what I am trying to convey.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I agree with Simhan's opinion, which reflects his wisdom, experience and maturity.
You seem to be a young man; very enthusiastic to apply the rules in a typical blind-folded manner implying no discrimination and the principles of "equality". In fact everyone tends to be like you in their initial years.
It is only with experience that one learns to "apply" the rules. While APPLYING rules one should take care of the principles of "positive" discrimination and view the whole thing in totality.
Giving due considerations on a case by case basis is also an accepted way of dispensing justice. Also, you might have heard of "exemplary punishment" !! If EQUALITY is everything; then why is a person "punished" to a GREATER EXTENT for the same infringement where another person would get a lesser punishment ??
Think over these issues too.
Justice and equality does not mean painting everyone with the same brush or closing one's eyes. There are "extenuating" circumstances; past records/performance; intentions and inabilities etc that have to be taken into consideration.
Therefore, there is a difference if a new joinee or a bachelor comes late everyday by 10 minutes and a married lady with small children, who has given years of continuous productive service, comes to office late by 10 minutes.
If rules are to be APPLIED BLINDLY, there is no need of qualified professionals to do so; even an illiterate cow-herd would suffice.
Rules are made to achieve certain PRIME objectives such as efficiency, productivity, safety etc. and not meant to be a STICK in the hands of HR persons to inflict "injury" on others. Such thinkings, as you have expressed, does not serve any useful purpose nor endears the HR to the employees; which is a must if you are looking for 'engaged', motivated, high-performing employees.
Please ignore my words, wherever you find them harsh; and just consider the essence of what I am trying to convey.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Ravi
Life is not that simple. I am no HR person but I have seen how HR in the companies thet I have worked for have looked at each case on its merit. As yours is a start up company, is the VP a major partner in the company.
You also say thall the IT personnel are senior to you. As the company's strength is only 11, I wonder why they even have a separate HR function!! Do you undertake other work as well?
How do you that the personal circumstances of the two ladies are the same? May be VP knows the situation of the lady in question. Does he approve penalising others if they are late? How many have been penalised in the last month? I can keep on raising questions to get an exact picture of the whole.
Once when I told my boss how things should be in principle (conduct method study before setting rates using time study), the boss told me "That's the way we do here and if you don't like it" and showed me the door. Hennce, if the VP is not for imposing the rule, there is nothing you can do.
You can see my profile in "About us" at
Have a nice day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
Life is not that simple. I am no HR person but I have seen how HR in the companies thet I have worked for have looked at each case on its merit. As yours is a start up company, is the VP a major partner in the company.
You also say thall the IT personnel are senior to you. As the company's strength is only 11, I wonder why they even have a separate HR function!! Do you undertake other work as well?
How do you that the personal circumstances of the two ladies are the same? May be VP knows the situation of the lady in question. Does he approve penalising others if they are late? How many have been penalised in the last month? I can keep on raising questions to get an exact picture of the whole.
Once when I told my boss how things should be in principle (conduct method study before setting rates using time study), the boss told me "That's the way we do here and if you don't like it" and showed me the door. Hennce, if the VP is not for imposing the rule, there is nothing you can do.
You can see my profile in "About us" at
Have a nice day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
Community Support and Knowledge-base on business, career and organisational prospects and issues - Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query, download formats and be part of a fostered community of professionals.
MALE VS FEMALE.doc
Why do female Indian motorcyclits not wear helmets.zip